Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Project Sunrise

Old 18th Nov 2019, 06:48
  #721 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
It is most definitely a different vibe this time. I’ve not met one person excited, or even faintly interested in what Dick and his mates have to say at their webinars. They seem to be causing more harm than anything else. Nobody is frightened.
I can’t see anything happening. AIPA’s email today pretty much confirms that they aren’t interested either. I wonder what Alan will do for his 100 year celebration without his vanity project. Such is life.
They will make an offer that we will accept. This is huge for Qantas IMO. 12 aircraft will allow 2/3 a day from the east coast to London plus maybe 1 to Paris plus Sydney direct JFK and maybe Chicago. All pax’s paying a premium, they want this badly but just want to pay crew on the cheap.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 08:42
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The deadline is Joyce's.
He used the media to communicate a narrative.

Let it expire.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 08:45
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12 aircraft will allow 2/3 a day from the east coast to London plus maybe 1 to Paris plus Sydney direct JFK and maybe Chicago.
​​​​​​​What aircraft will be doing this flying?
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 08:57
  #724 (permalink)  
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fish

Originally Posted by fearcampaign
Whomever Keg is was also adamant that he’d spoken to management and was told that Qantas would get at least 50 787s. He’s now got his panties in a twist and is trying to claim retirements, deaths, high divisors with 6 aircraft yet to be replaced and purporting those numbers to demonstrate “growth”.


Your comprehension skills are appalling. I’ve not claimed ‘retirements, deaths, high divisors with 6 aircraft yet to be replaced’ is growth. More verballing. Disappointing but not surprising really.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 09:24
  #725 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve not met one person excited, or even faintly interested in what Dick and his mates have to say at their webinars. They seem to be causing more harm than anything else.
I’m not sure I agree with this. DA’s email the other day referred to the number of callers as ‘overwhelming’. They certainly overwhelmed QF IT. Assuming his numbers are correct, several hundred people willing to call in on their day off would lend some credence to his claim.

The best thing would have been for Dick et al to switch on the phone to be greeted by the sound of crickets. It would be great to see such a response to the next one.

The issue with this EA might be several hundred new pilots, none of whom have really experienced what this company is capable of, and who won’t be adversely affected by anything in the proposal.

They might believe the company when they are told they’ll get a widebody FO spot earning 300k and a pony. It’s important that newer pilots are aware of Dixon’s letter promising commands and unicorns for all, the growth of Jetstar, the lockout, the sacred scroll etc. - in short the history of this airline since the acquisition of Impulse - so they understand why there should be no belief and no trust in management.

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Old 18th Nov 2019, 11:01
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Can we start a list of the lies or things that have been certain or promised but not ever happened.
I’ll start.

Dixons sign this EA and every SO will be a FO and. every FO a CPT within a year
Jetstar will never be any more than 18 aircraft
Red Q
Jetstar Hong Kong
I woke up in the morning and decided to ground the airline
787 is a growth type
Sunrise is a growth type.
The SH deal is the best you will get.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 12:27
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QF doesnt need Sunrise. It makes most of its money from domestic.

It should call your bluff and cancel Sunrise. But dont come on here complaining about QF continuing to shrink its international flying.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 14:27
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can't see the Board ego's being happy as a small-ish regional domestic player - they like the International bean fests too much..................
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 21:39
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Lots of very good argument here on the demands & dangers of ULH flying and hazards of dealing with QF management at EBA time.
There’s also considered speculation on Project Sunrise destinations, east coast Aust. to London, New York, (Paris, Chicago, Dallas maybe).
With all that’s been discussed on this thread so far surely someone must know what aircraft type will be doing this flying.
I’ll ask the same question another way, what aircraft is currently available that can fly (in a single sector) a commercially viable load to & from these destinations?

Last edited by Emmit Stussy; 18th Nov 2019 at 23:21. Reason: typo
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 22:08
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Originally Posted by Emmit Stussy
Lots of very good argument here on the demands & dangers of ULH flying and hazards of dealing with QF management at EBA time.
There’s also considered speculation on Project Sunrise destinations, east coast Aust. to London, New York, (Paris, Chicago, Dallas maybe).
With all that’s been discussed on this thread so far surely someone must know what aircraft type will be doing this flying.
I’ll the same question another way, what aircraft is currently available that can fly (in a single sector) a commercially viable load to & from these destinations?
I think you’ll find the answer is currently none!
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 23:04
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I think you’ll find the answer is currently none!
Yet so much of the conversation, argument, opinion & insults in the now 740+ posts would lead people to think the operation is imminent.
So why, in the previous 38 pages, is so much energy being expended on crew health/crew config./crew rest/crew pay etc, on what (at least in respect to the next contract period and possibly beyond) at best is a notional project?

What is being missed here?
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 23:24
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Originally Posted by Emmit Stussy


Yet so much of the conversation, argument, opinion & insults in the now 740+ posts would lead people to think the operation is imminent.
So why, in the previous 38 pages, is so much energy being expended on crew health/crew config./crew rest/crew pay etc, on what (at least in respect to the next contract period and possibly beyond) at best is a notional project?

What is being missed here?
There would be little point in asking aircraft and engine makers to research, develop and produce an aircraft capable of flying these routes with a meaningful load if the passengers and crew can't handle it.
There were rumours some time ago that BA had asked Airbus to develop a version of the A350 that could do LHR-SYD but that seems to have died.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 23:32
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Did the recent LHR-SYD "research" really leave LHR circa 0600. How valid is that research then particularly on circadian rhythms etc given that more likely departure time will be around 2300?
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 00:10
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There were rumours some time ago that BA had asked Airbus to develop a version of the A350 that could do LHR-SYD but that seems to have died.
Thanks TURIN,
If true I wonder why.
So this, along with the shelving of the B777X project, leads one to ask why is QF management pushing so hard to get the next EBA signed-off when there is no suitable equipment available now or in the near future. Why the rush?

ruebee,
Your question is valid in consideration of real ULH operations. I do think however, this and the many other good comments relating to actual ULH ops only serve to mitigate what is really happening here.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 00:48
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Both Boeing and Airbus will say they have the equipment to do it. Despite what some say about the insignificance of QF, they both want the order. The 350 can do it, with the load QF are planning (thru necessity or otherwise). The 777 available can’t do it but Boeing are compensating QF for the reduced load until the new 777 is available and then saying the FIRST 777s COULD REPLACE THE A380s at which time compensation would stop. This means QF get the best of both worlds. Variable capacity, common type, and overall less airframes required with greater flexibility.

Of note QF are aware that the SH EA offer had no stone unturned by the pilots because of the social media platform used. For LH EA they are holding a 3rd Webinar in an attempt to preemptively get the growth message out without serious back and forth discussion possible. Time will tell if QF are prepared to engage in discussion like that which happened in SH. Sometimes the guilty are best not to take the stand.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 03:25
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The 777 available can’t do it but Boeing are compensating QF for the reduced load until the new 777 is available and then saying the FIRST 777s COULD REPLACE THE A380s at which time compensation would stop.
‘Could’ being the operative word.
As much as I think of the LeMon 380, it is a money earner for Qantas.
The states in particular where there is no competition for the product.
Add the fact that Q are investing heavily in a reconfig and it would appear Q will see out the economic life of the A380.
Probably the end of next decade.
One problem is the 777-9X is a very heavy aircraft.
The A350 would be more economical over shorter distances such as SE Asia which is a desired Q route network.
Nonetheless after re-reading my points and knowing Q’s history I wouldn’t be surprised if they do as CC’s suggest!
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 04:31
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There would be little point in asking aircraft and engine makers to research, develop and produce an aircraft capable of flying these routes with a meaningful load if the passengers and crew can't handle it.
Agree with you completely TURIN and if QF was anything like its former self both manufacturers would take it seriously. Do you really think they’d form new project teams because a minor player might buy a handful of airframes?
And does anyone accept the fatigue data collected from 2 or 3 heavily publicised flights (party tricks)? Did I hear right that one crew member said he slept better in crew rest than at home? Wow, just WOW!

Again I ask, why the rush to agree to a deal on a whimsical idea that is years away? The answer could be a lot closer to home than people realise.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 04:39
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Originally Posted by crosscutter
Both Boeing and Airbus will say they have the equipment to do it. Despite what some say about the insignificance of QF, they both want the order. The 350 can do it, with the load QF are planning (thru necessity or otherwise). The 777 available can’t do it but Boeing are compensating QF for the reduced load until the new 777 is available and then saying the FIRST 777s COULD REPLACE THE A380s at which time compensation would stop. This means QF get the best of both worlds. Variable capacity, common type, and overall less airframes required with greater flexibility.

Of note QF are aware that the SH EA offer had no stone unturned by the pilots because of the social media platform used. For LH EA they are holding a 3rd Webinar in an attempt to preemptively get the growth message out without serious back and forth discussion possible. Time will tell if QF are prepared to engage in discussion like that which happened in SH. Sometimes the guilty are best not to take the stand.
It's worth noting that while both B and AB want the order, QF purchases alone wouldn't justify development of any special performance variants. The manufacturer's strategy in either case is to get an order from an airline whose business model could greatly benefit from ULH flights, so they can sell bulk orders to airlines who would want to be able to offer the same points of difference.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 04:42
  #739 (permalink)  
 
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@wingspar.

Of note is that the reconfig adds (I have been told) several tonnes, so the east west journey from the US, presumably DFW, may require even more seats left vacant. I don't work there and never flown on it, so cannot confirm but it sounded factual.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 04:45
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Well... few more 'commercial' hurdles to jump over before regulator and aircrew challenges come to head @ https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...19-p53c02.html
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