Project Sunrise
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Sunfish, you've fallen straight into the trap many airline managers did, fuel consumption is not a linear function. *cough* Boston Bruce pointed out why LCC couldn't work economically as sector length increased for this reason. He was "choosen" to go to the cosmetics industry as a consequence.
Jet transport fuel consumption is a function of time (Fuel economy in aircraft). You consume around 3% per hour per hour to carry it, this is, an exponential function. We could split hairs about the actual number (2.75 ~ 3.0 ~ 3.25%), but all it really does is change the inflection point in time before going exponential. For a A380 that inflection point is around 8 hours, for the B787 it may be 10 or 12 hours, I haven't seen the exact data.
This is why all the manufactures are trying to do everything they can to reduce airframe weight, to lower the burn % per hour to shift the inflection point.
The bottom line is the is not about reducing fuel costs, rather trying to increase the premium with direct point-to-point between high value financial centres. If there is a premium direct service it could potentially create an economic moat as there won't be enough traffic for a competitor on these routes.
Example: The specific range of a Boeing 777-200 per distance
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft
Jet transport fuel consumption is a function of time (Fuel economy in aircraft). You consume around 3% per hour per hour to carry it, this is, an exponential function. We could split hairs about the actual number (2.75 ~ 3.0 ~ 3.25%), but all it really does is change the inflection point in time before going exponential. For a A380 that inflection point is around 8 hours, for the B787 it may be 10 or 12 hours, I haven't seen the exact data.
This is why all the manufactures are trying to do everything they can to reduce airframe weight, to lower the burn % per hour to shift the inflection point.
The bottom line is the is not about reducing fuel costs, rather trying to increase the premium with direct point-to-point between high value financial centres. If there is a premium direct service it could potentially create an economic moat as there won't be enough traffic for a competitor on these routes.
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Flight distance
For long-haul flights, the airplane needs to carry additional fuel, leading to higher fuel consumption. Above a certain distance it becomes more fuel-efficient to make a halfway stop to refuel, despite the energy losses in descent and climb. For example, a Boeing 777-300 reaches that point at 3,000 nautical miles (5,600 km). It is more fuel-efficient to make a non-stop flight at less than this distance and to make a stop when covering a greater total distance.[5]FUEL CONSUMPTION Pounds per Nautical mile as function of distance
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft
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I agree rjtjrt. Trying to sit in the narrow space without encroaching or being encroached upon by another is worse.
Dragon Man, not the point. If Square Bear wants to slag off a product, then be accurate and don't exaggerate. That is all.
Dragon Man, not the point. If Square Bear wants to slag off a product, then be accurate and don't exaggerate. That is all.
- It hasn't stopped pax buying flights on PER-LHR or MEL-LAX
- Both of the aircraft under consideration for sunrise will have wider cabins which can accommodate 9/10 abreast at 18 inch seat width.
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Due to the low passenger load, each passenger was allocated a business class seat that could convert into a bed, although passengers were encouraged to spend time in the coach cabin in order to balance the plane. “I feel better than I usually do,” Nick Mole, one of the passengers in the research study, told Business Insider about 17 hours into the flight. Mr. Mole often flies in business class, but said that he feels better rested after an ultra-long-haul direct flight, rather than one with a connection, including Qantas’ service to New York via Los Angeles. “I’m not sure I’d want to do 20 hours in the back of the plane, though,” he added.
Exactly. Fine in a premium cabin where you can have space and be ‘horizontal’. Crammed down the back, especially in a middle seat - a form of torture.
Please do a test flight with a number of people crammed into a section of economy and see what the ‘feedback’ is like. How ‘better rested’ they are.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/w...sydney-2019-10
No idea what Qantas is considering for Project Sunrise, but Singapore went with a 100% premium product on their Singapore LAX and JFK service (A340-500) - basically all business class. They also charged a premium above the normal business class for the same route with a stop. I looked into the LAX-SIN nonstop once and IIRC it was about $1000 more than the normal business class fare.
Seemed to work for them...
Seemed to work for them...
No idea what Qantas is considering for Project Sunrise, but Singapore went with a 100% premium product on their Singapore LAX and JFK service (A340-500) - basically all business class. They also charged a premium above the normal business class for the same route with a stop. I looked into the LAX-SIN nonstop once and IIRC it was about $1000 more than the normal business class fare.
Seemed to work for them...
Seemed to work for them...
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No. Does your mate still drive a Model T Ford? 🙄
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing...ghts_21_and_22
11 years of 340 flying the route as the longest at the time. Correct only 18 hours, however surely some good date there.
Yes it was only J class for a long time, not that that effects the drivers, but certainly does the CC which no one has really spoken about on this new service. They will be working!!!
So the key is to get the crew compliment, rest and rest area right.
I am no angel, just a realist.
11 years of 340 flying the route as the longest at the time. Correct only 18 hours, however surely some good date there.
Yes it was only J class for a long time, not that that effects the drivers, but certainly does the CC which no one has really spoken about on this new service. They will be working!!!
So the key is to get the crew compliment, rest and rest area right.
I am no angel, just a realist.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...20-p532d8.html
Its viable says the $24 million man. Great. Then stop trying to screw the pilots you prick.
Its viable says the $24 million man. Great. Then stop trying to screw the pilots you prick.
Sooooo .... you’ve been a passenger on the flight, once, maybe ? You don’t fly an airliner and you’ve never flown long haul. Yet you’ve posted on this thread on numerous occasions. Mainly gibberish, but it is repetitive.
To be frank; you come across as a drunk dude that may fly airplanes. You’ve posted the expression “tequila sunrise” so many times that you appear to be looking for recognition as an amusing raconteur. Or, some sort of validation.
It hadn’t happened. Now it has.
This is it.
So a bit of realism to the end of the ULH.
I love the attacking comments towards me, grow up it’s called constructive criticism. Sunrise, Bananrama, Tequila Sunrise, the flight will happen. Make it work for you.
Yes I’ve been repetitive as I feel the comments need to be.
Busted! Yes I have replied after a few, actually doesn’t change my attitude to this flight. Do the job you signed up for. As for Sunrise fight make sure you have the required crew requirement, rest and erm repeat do your job.
As I’ve said several time no I haven’t flown ULH, yes paxed numerous times not that that counts!
I am still more concerned about 2 crew red eyes than multi crew ULH!
I love the attacking comments towards me, grow up it’s called constructive criticism. Sunrise, Bananrama, Tequila Sunrise, the flight will happen. Make it work for you.
Yes I’ve been repetitive as I feel the comments need to be.
Busted! Yes I have replied after a few, actually doesn’t change my attitude to this flight. Do the job you signed up for. As for Sunrise fight make sure you have the required crew requirement, rest and erm repeat do your job.
As I’ve said several time no I haven’t flown ULH, yes paxed numerous times not that that counts!
I am still more concerned about 2 crew red eyes than multi crew ULH!
Do the job you signed up for. As for Sunrise fight make sure you have the required crew requirement, rest and erm repeat do your job.