Project Sunrise
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Project Sunrise
I see Qantas are about to start research flights.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...22-p52jm3.html
How would they route SYD to LHR?
Take off and set heading 319 degrees and just keep going?
The Great circle route takes you across the South China Sea - right through the middle of China, up the top of Kazakhstan and down, across Western Russia then down through Estonia and the Baltic to Britain...
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...22-p52jm3.html
How would they route SYD to LHR?
Take off and set heading 319 degrees and just keep going?
The Great circle route takes you across the South China Sea - right through the middle of China, up the top of Kazakhstan and down, across Western Russia then down through Estonia and the Baltic to Britain...
Top Answer
19th Jan 2024, 21:00
The track flies straight over a nation that is currently politically unviable for any Australian airline to fly over, lest alone they need to make an emergency landing in that nation.
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You’d be a long way from London if you put in 319 and left it for 20 hours.
Since you looked at the map you would’ve noticed the great circle route approaches London from the north east and the final heading would be 240.
Since you looked at the map you would’ve noticed the great circle route approaches London from the north east and the final heading would be 240.
With the number of academics involved (probably gathering data for peer reviewed research papers), I’m optimistic the human results will be realistic.
Fuel burn & other ‘engineering’ issues I assume are solely for analysis by Qantas.
Regards
layman
Fuel burn & other ‘engineering’ issues I assume are solely for analysis by Qantas.
Regards
layman
Last edited by layman; 22nd Aug 2019 at 09:03. Reason: Clarification of what I meant ...
As realistic as the epic pax positioning and a few days rest makes it
probably office types and TFOs that aren't knackered to start with
so even with good intentions (hmm) it's going to be bs
probably office types and TFOs that aren't knackered to start with
so even with good intentions (hmm) it's going to be bs
So they are going to put just 40 pax in an aircraft of a different type and feel they can get results from this.
What about the impact on those pinioned in Economy window seats by those alongside who are asleep ? What about the capacity of the toilets with a full pax load ? Will they serve minimalist Economy catering to those at the back, or will everyone get something better ? Will you be told "your choice" has run out and only the veggie option is left now ? And 1,001 other issues which will not be replicated. Regarding the crew, these are apparently new aircraft delivery flights, so one way. Surely the crews should do both ways, with the proposed layover time.
I recall the nonstop LHR-SYD 747-400 from 30 years ago (gosh, really was that long ago) heading right overhead me as it departed London. If I recall correctly, it routed the "conventional" way, over The Gulf and the Indian Ocean. When you are going pretty much one side of the world to the other (I know it's not quite that) it doesn't matter hugely which way you point, and the winds become more significant. The Singapore-New York A350 sometimes routes over the Pacific, sometimes it comes overhead London.
What about the impact on those pinioned in Economy window seats by those alongside who are asleep ? What about the capacity of the toilets with a full pax load ? Will they serve minimalist Economy catering to those at the back, or will everyone get something better ? Will you be told "your choice" has run out and only the veggie option is left now ? And 1,001 other issues which will not be replicated. Regarding the crew, these are apparently new aircraft delivery flights, so one way. Surely the crews should do both ways, with the proposed layover time.
The Great circle route takes you across the South China Sea - right through the middle of China, up the top of Kazakhstan and down, across Western Russia then down through Estonia and the Baltic to Britain...
Last edited by WHBM; 22nd Aug 2019 at 09:21.
Statement of the obvious - research can rarely give a ‘final’ answer in anything -but it’s a start.
On only a quick look around, I didn’t find any papers directly referencing this type of empirical research.
The ‘only’ papers I found that are somewhat relevant were:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...g-haul_Flights
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6969971830317X
Reoeating the experimental conditions 3 times usually gives a higher confidence level.
Might it be like Singapore airlines and be all premium / business?
On only a quick look around, I didn’t find any papers directly referencing this type of empirical research.
The ‘only’ papers I found that are somewhat relevant were:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...g-haul_Flights
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6969971830317X
Reoeating the experimental conditions 3 times usually gives a higher confidence level.
Might it be like Singapore airlines and be all premium / business?
So they will fly 40 staff and crew, First and Business class to New York and London. Put them up in nice Hotels for a few days with a fist full of US Dollars and Pounds.
Then they will fly non stop home to SYD and then be asked;
“What do you think of that flight and how do you feel?”
Then they will fly non stop home to SYD and then be asked;
“What do you think of that flight and how do you feel?”
Some people on here will damn them what ever they do
Try and launch without testing? Damned!!!
Testing ?? Damned!!!!
Sure it may be uncomfortable for the few souls in Economy but if the price is right they'll be happy to pay for it - all the evidence shows that the economics for the airline are the go/no-go decision - the SLF will happily put up with anything...............
Try and launch without testing? Damned!!!
Testing ?? Damned!!!!
Sure it may be uncomfortable for the few souls in Economy but if the price is right they'll be happy to pay for it - all the evidence shows that the economics for the airline are the go/no-go decision - the SLF will happily put up with anything...............
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I'm quite sure the frames will be able to make the distance. The only issue is going to be, "at what passenger load?" Unless the plane can hold enough pax who are paying the right price, a technical success will be an economic failure.
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The data for the passengers will be useless. Test it with a full economy cabin. Staff who are lucky to be on the junket will tow the line.
This is a classic publicity stunt to divert attention from the lack of investment in other aircraft.
Pax load is one thing. There's also "how much freight" as well. Cathay in particular commonly gross their 773ER out on substantial belly cargo loads to and from Hong Kong, on both legs of their competing flights. With a full pax load and bags, belly freight revenue is still commonly equal to the overall profit for the flight.
Yes, this is Pprune, the mouthpiece of airline sceptics anonymous (including me at times! ), but I am confident that this little project can be worthwhile.
I'm told that one of the flights will be operated by a Fatigue Panel Captain and one by an AIPA CoM member Captain (who is definitely not of the alleged AIPA to management clique).
The data will be collated by AlertnessCRC who ran the PER-LHR and MEL-LAX study, again with the full support of AIPA (and please save yourself the typing on AIPA execs moving to management roles and thus rubber stamping these results in the company's favour).
At least it's being done.
I'm told that one of the flights will be operated by a Fatigue Panel Captain and one by an AIPA CoM member Captain (who is definitely not of the alleged AIPA to management clique).
The data will be collated by AlertnessCRC who ran the PER-LHR and MEL-LAX study, again with the full support of AIPA (and please save yourself the typing on AIPA execs moving to management roles and thus rubber stamping these results in the company's favour).
At least it's being done.
Thread Starter
Perhaps this route? Proving(?) route from 30 years ago
Great Circle Mapper - featured in the home page
Great Circle Mapper - featured in the home page
Clearly some concern about crews, basing etc.
But epic flight this - I see Boeing have proposed a 777-8 variant to do it.
What mods might they make - less freight and additional belly tanks to boost the range?
Which means you need more Biz and First to offset the revenue loss?
Assume that prevailing westerly winds are going to be a big factor...?