Project Sunrise
Well I'd rationalise it by saying if the long term plan was to outsource and destroy" the LH award the perfect opportunity would've been in 2015 after the huge loss and the impending 787 arrival. But it came on the existing award. Under it's own set of conditions, yes, but almost every pilot I've spoken to says it's a fantastic deal, better than the 330 which is still flown under supposedly superior legacy conditions. The 787 is more senior than the 330. But I remember during the lead up to that vote the same types who are complaining about the 350 now were basically saying the same thing about the 787 then.
The A350 looks like it'll be a more pay than the 787 but a bit more work, and less work than the 330 for more money. But on a global scale utterly downright fantastic T&C's for any flying in this day and age. Don't like it don't bid for it. But even if you don't want to fly it vote Yes and keep it in mainline because it will ensure that the position you do want to get to will come quicker. If it's No and it's outsourced then your career progression is stalled again.
The A350 looks like it'll be a more pay than the 787 but a bit more work, and less work than the 330 for more money. But on a global scale utterly downright fantastic T&C's for any flying in this day and age. Don't like it don't bid for it. But even if you don't want to fly it vote Yes and keep it in mainline because it will ensure that the position you do want to get to will come quicker. If it's No and it's outsourced then your career progression is stalled again.
And in another 'interesting turn of events', 10 of the 12 A380's are to be grounded amongst other measures to counter the reduction in demand as a result of the virus.
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10 x 380s grounded (ie not flying) until Sep- A no voter would want to give themselves a serious uppercut in the event of this deal being turned down.
I like most started off in the no camp, but things change.
Most VA pilots will be happy if they have a job by mid year.
I’ll be happy if I’m not forced on LWOP this year or worse.
COVID is serious. Not the virus itself- but the scare campaign by the media which has brought the world to a standstill.
I haven’t been forced in to a yes vote by AJ or his counterparts, I have made a decision using the facts on the table. Assess your own facts wisely and don’t vote based on what your mate might think of you. This is not a pissing contest about who can outlast the other.
I like most started off in the no camp, but things change.
Most VA pilots will be happy if they have a job by mid year.
I’ll be happy if I’m not forced on LWOP this year or worse.
COVID is serious. Not the virus itself- but the scare campaign by the media which has brought the world to a standstill.
I haven’t been forced in to a yes vote by AJ or his counterparts, I have made a decision using the facts on the table. Assess your own facts wisely and don’t vote based on what your mate might think of you. This is not a pissing contest about who can outlast the other.
Last edited by Green.Dot; 9th Mar 2020 at 21:58.
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You contradict yourself sir. The only way to avoid history repeating itself is to SECURE the 350 flying!
At least they are giving you an option before starting up a Jetstar this time!
Vote YES to secure the flying.
FALSE information. This was confirmed by Tino in a webinar. Do your research before posting voting advice on here.
At least they are giving you an option before starting up a Jetstar this time!
Vote YES to secure the flying.
FALSE information. This was confirmed by Tino in a webinar. Do your research before posting voting advice on here.
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Lets look into a hypothetical future. The NO vote gets up, the 350's go to a new entity.
In the future the 380's are grounded for a longer period of time, and or retired. 380 pilots RINd to 330/787. What happens to the junior pilots? Well after the EBA process is followed, redundancy! And remember the 350s never came, so there is no new seniority numbers below you because no new pilots were ever hired (they went to the new entity).
If you are new to this company and are thinking of voting NO in this EBA, you will severely regret it!
I haven’t been forced in to a yes vote by AJ or his counterparts, I have made a decision using the facts on the table. Assess your own facts wisely and don’t vote based on what your mate might think of you. This is not a pissing contest about who can outlast the other.
With our beloved CEO now taking no salary until July 2020, back pay and 3% pay rises is looking pretty good!
Last edited by normanton; 9th Mar 2020 at 22:34.
The smartest thing for QF management and the pilot group to do now is to postpone further discussion for 18 months - 2 years until the pandemic has run its course.
While some might think that management has the whip hand now, cautious investors might think otherwise.
While some might think that management has the whip hand now, cautious investors might think otherwise.
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There it is lads and ladies. 10 380’s, 30% pay cut to management and no salary for AJ for the rest of the FY.
To be honest this discussion should be over. The writing is on the wall. If you’re still considering a no vote now, quite frankly you’re out of touch with reality.
Forget the 350 and those terms that won’t come into effect till 2022. This is about backpay and 3% in a ****ed economic situation.
To be honest this discussion should be over. The writing is on the wall. If you’re still considering a no vote now, quite frankly you’re out of touch with reality.
Forget the 350 and those terms that won’t come into effect till 2022. This is about backpay and 3% in a ****ed economic situation.
AJ has $100m (give or take) to survive on. He’s weaponised biohazard as CX did with SARS.
When AJ returns to paid work - any bets on him doing 30% more work back of clock to make up for it?
When AJ et al return to full paid work, anyone seriously think they WONT be handsomely recompensed for ‘taking one for the team’ just like the last time Qf workers weren’t thanked and completely screwed by taking pay freezes LWOP etc?
Sunfish is right, but this is not the time to be used and screwed.
When AJ returns to paid work - any bets on him doing 30% more work back of clock to make up for it?
When AJ et al return to full paid work, anyone seriously think they WONT be handsomely recompensed for ‘taking one for the team’ just like the last time Qf workers weren’t thanked and completely screwed by taking pay freezes LWOP etc?
Sunfish is right, but this is not the time to be used and screwed.
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Re enter negotiations....perhaps. But sure as a sunrise, the offer will be substantially worse than now. They wouldn’t be able to refuse the chance.
what does the lead qrewroom IR strategist, non union member, and now medical expert think?
what does the lead qrewroom IR strategist, non union member, and now medical expert think?
If pilots vote no the first time at the end of March then the 350 will go to an external company. And given the impending end to the 380 there won’t be much left for anyone in mainline.
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a **** deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
Meanwhile all the recently agreed provisions will be fully utilised with the remnants of QF
Meatbomb and Butterfly, still waiting on that explanation. Just dot points will do.
If the vote is a Yes and then the A350 ultimately for some reason does not end up on the LHEA, please explain what it is about the remaining offer that is so bad that it should have people voting No. What 'recently agreed provisions' would affect us so negatively? What 'dogsh!t deal' would we be victims of?
Go on. Make a list for us.
After you've done that, heres another question, are you two actually on the Mainline Seniority list, or would you perhaps stand to benefit from a new entity following a No vote?
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Beautiful butterfly is from the middle east, many others have very little posting history, despite seeing them posting for many years (They must be deleting anything that identifies them to some other carrier). Again, I stress many on this board are antagonizing for a NO vote because they have a lot to gain. They are not QF pilots.
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To everyone thinking of voting NO, have a very good think about the current situation at play.
You vote NO to EBA LH10, and the 350's WILL go to a new entity. Fast forward to the end of 2030 the 380's are due for retirement. There is NO replacement aircraft because you allowed the 350's to go to a new entity.
Instead of LWOP, forced leave, and annual Leave, the 380 pilots WILL be RINd to the 330/787.
Think very carefully before you vote NO on March 20th. The consequences could be very dire for your future.
Secure our future. Vote YES!
You vote NO to EBA LH10, and the 350's WILL go to a new entity. Fast forward to the end of 2030 the 380's are due for retirement. There is NO replacement aircraft because you allowed the 350's to go to a new entity.
Instead of LWOP, forced leave, and annual Leave, the 380 pilots WILL be RINd to the 330/787.
Think very carefully before you vote NO on March 20th. The consequences could be very dire for your future.
Secure our future. Vote YES!
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And to answer your question, its been said multiple times that there is no guarantee mainline pilots will be able to bid across to the new entity.
The only way to guarantee a reduction in the widebody command time at mainline would be to vote YES for EBA 10.
400 new pilots. 1000 new training slots. Huge retirement numbers coming up over the next 10 years = growth and movement.
If you think we have been in for a wild ride over the past few years with all the movement, just wait until the 350s come with a spike in retirements. The training department wont be able to keep up.
So Rabbitwear is just another wannabee trying to spread bulsh1t. Doesn't even understand the Award.
Normanton, despite the CEOs words, I strongly believe the 380s aren't going to last that long.....
Normanton, despite the CEOs words, I strongly believe the 380s aren't going to last that long.....