Traffic Spacing?
Thread Starter
Sitting in the EK lounge. What prompted my idle speculation is why we are spending billions on a new Sydney airport and allegedly a third runway in Melbourne.
Could we save that expense by reducing spacing and removing noise minimizing operation practices including curfews?
Are we spending billions just to pander to a few selfish voters?
Furthermore, the volume of airline traffic in Europe is mind boggling compared to Australia yet they seem to run things with no fuss despite adverse weather, yet despite our benign weather we still have delays due congestion. Exactly why is this so? They also run 130kmh+ on freeways with no problems either. What is the reason? We seem to be slow and backwards.
Could we save that expense by reducing spacing and removing noise minimizing operation practices including curfews?
Are we spending billions just to pander to a few selfish voters?
Furthermore, the volume of airline traffic in Europe is mind boggling compared to Australia yet they seem to run things with no fuss despite adverse weather, yet despite our benign weather we still have delays due congestion. Exactly why is this so? They also run 130kmh+ on freeways with no problems either. What is the reason? We seem to be slow and backwards.
What is the reason? We seem to be slow and backwards.
When I look at what happens in the rest of the world in many aspects of modern life, I shake my head at how we have allowed Australia to be run by the timid hollow people. We used to innovate here, no more. It is all about backside protection.
Atlanta actually has 5 parallel runways. They use 3 for landings and 2 for departures.
Is great to be on final and have 2 Mad Dogs abeam you, one each side for the other parallels. It's great to watch them flow traffic.
Is great to be on final and have 2 Mad Dogs abeam you, one each side for the other parallels. It's great to watch them flow traffic.
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first time I went to the States for an endo I was at DFW, I just shook my head at how much traffic they processed, gets boring to watch after a while. Yep I like Oz, I see a plane every now & then & still get a thrill:-)
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sitting in the EK lounge. What prompted my idle speculation is why we are spending billions on a new Sydney airport and allegedly a third runway in Melbourne.
Could we save that expense by reducing spacing and removing noise minimizing operation practices including curfews?
Are we spending billions just to pander to a few selfish voters?
Furthermore, the volume of airline traffic in Europe is mind boggling compared to Australia yet they seem to run things with no fuss despite adverse weather, yet despite our benign weather we still have delays due congestion. Exactly why is this so? They also run 130kmh+ on freeways with no problems either. What is the reason? We seem to be slow and backwards.
Could we save that expense by reducing spacing and removing noise minimizing operation practices including curfews?
Are we spending billions just to pander to a few selfish voters?
Furthermore, the volume of airline traffic in Europe is mind boggling compared to Australia yet they seem to run things with no fuss despite adverse weather, yet despite our benign weather we still have delays due congestion. Exactly why is this so? They also run 130kmh+ on freeways with no problems either. What is the reason? We seem to be slow and backwards.
except in low vis ops when you can’t see the runway it’s the PIC’s responsibility to ensure the runway is clear. If it doesn’t look like you have the required separation you would go around and not rely on ATC regardless of which country you’re flying in.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kyeemagh
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Mae Sai
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Furthermore, the volume of airline traffic in Europe is mind boggling compared to Australia yet they seem to run things with no fuss
This appears to be the world we live in now - bold assertions from people without a clue.
Bit of a “how long is a piece of string question”. At face value in the context of Sydney, we beat it, but of course it depends on time of day, weather etc. Sydney averages 37 arrivals in the morning rush hours, and did go as high as 48 on day.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish,
Sydney and Melbourne could keep their current runways, and would not require any new ones if there was a fast train service between the two cities. If the train could do it in three hours, then number of flights would reduce dramatically. see http://www.traveller.com.au/worlds-busiest-airline-flight-routes-melbournesydney-now-worlds-second-busiest-h0e7ha
Think outside the square.
Sydney and Melbourne could keep their current runways, and would not require any new ones if there was a fast train service between the two cities. If the train could do it in three hours, then number of flights would reduce dramatically. see http://www.traveller.com.au/worlds-busiest-airline-flight-routes-melbournesydney-now-worlds-second-busiest-h0e7ha
Think outside the square.
High speed trains... Australia... Can not even get local trains to the airport...
Send the pollies for some China and Japan rail trips, now that’s efficiency (yes also huge population)...
Next, even if it was yes to trains tomorrow what about the purple speckled leaf eating grasshopper that’s habitat is in the rail corridor? Construction... actually Wagners!!!
Now back to traffic separation... cleared to land!
Think "outside the square" --- and do some serious costing.
The assumption always is that the un-subsidized cost per passenger seat km. is automatically cheaper by train.
This is simply not so, and given the distances between Australia's few population centers, sadly for HS rail, airlines are devastatingly competitive.
Remember, HS rail has NOT destroyed aviation services within China or Japan, or, for that matter, Europe.
And, folks, the good (or bad, depending on your point of view) news is that rapidly rising electricity prices in Australia, due to ratbag energy policies, makes HS rail even more un-competitive.
Tootle pip!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Geosynchronous
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HS rail - no chance while every politician is treated to the Chairman's Club!
(At leat one positive of that arrangement - us in WA won't have to pay yet more tens of billions for yet more of your East Coast infrastructure...)
(At leat one positive of that arrangement - us in WA won't have to pay yet more tens of billions for yet more of your East Coast infrastructure...)
Have you seen the prices of high speed rail tickets in Japan, China, Europe?
Just like airfares some are cheap but most are not, the more comfort the more expensive.
From memory Japan one of the highest, that certainly hasn’t stopped the rise of the Peach or Orange Star.
Just like airfares some are cheap but most are not, the more comfort the more expensive.
From memory Japan one of the highest, that certainly hasn’t stopped the rise of the Peach or Orange Star.
A cynical statement, feel good now??
Whether you believe it or not, the economics of HS rail in Australia simply does not add up
One bright idea to "balance the books" is/was to raise a land tax on the basis that HS passenger rail access would increase inter-urban land values, along the rail corridor, payable as a subsidy.
As I said a while back, the problem with HS rail in Australia is the devastatingly competitive real world cost of air transport..
AND---- taking a total (as opposed to cheery picked) environmental picture, air transport brushed up pretty well environmentally.
Tootle pip!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Geosynchronous
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another Number,
A cynical statement, feel good now??
Whether you believe it or not, the economics of HS rail in Australia simply does not add up
One bright idea to "balance the books" is/was to raise a land tax on the basis that HS passenger rail access would increase inter-urban land values, along the rail corridor, payable as a subsidy.
As I said a while back, the problem with HS rail in Australia is the devastatingly competitive real world cost of air transport..
AND---- taking a total (as opposed to cheery picked) environmental picture, air transport brushed up pretty well environmentally.
Tootle pip!!
A cynical statement, feel good now??
Whether you believe it or not, the economics of HS rail in Australia simply does not add up
One bright idea to "balance the books" is/was to raise a land tax on the basis that HS passenger rail access would increase inter-urban land values, along the rail corridor, payable as a subsidy.
As I said a while back, the problem with HS rail in Australia is the devastatingly competitive real world cost of air transport..
AND---- taking a total (as opposed to cheery picked) environmental picture, air transport brushed up pretty well environmentally.
Tootle pip!!
I wasn't even implying HS rail was a good idea in Oz, let alone suggesting it. (Nuclear power is also nice, but wouldn't recommend it here these days, either).
However, sensible economics doesn't prevent costly schemes as much as a
If our politicians spent sensibly, we wouldn't be wasting $40 billion or so on Pyne subs (not to mention JWH JSFs, etc...)
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another Number,
A cynical statement, feel good now??
Whether you believe it or not, the economics of HS rail in Australia simply does not add up
One bright idea to "balance the books" is/was to raise a land tax on the basis that HS passenger rail access would increase inter-urban land values, along the rail corridor, payable as a subsidy.
As I said a while back, the problem with HS rail in Australia is the devastatingly competitive real world cost of air transport..
AND---- taking a total (as opposed to cheery picked) environmental picture, air transport brushed up pretty well environmentally.
Tootle pip!!
A cynical statement, feel good now??
Whether you believe it or not, the economics of HS rail in Australia simply does not add up
One bright idea to "balance the books" is/was to raise a land tax on the basis that HS passenger rail access would increase inter-urban land values, along the rail corridor, payable as a subsidy.
As I said a while back, the problem with HS rail in Australia is the devastatingly competitive real world cost of air transport..
AND---- taking a total (as opposed to cheery picked) environmental picture, air transport brushed up pretty well environmentally.
Tootle pip!!
Unless we had more population which could justify the cost and the usage, I totally agree with you; it ain't worth it so the airlines needn't be worried.
