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Virgin and the China connection

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Virgin and the China connection

Old 29th Jul 2019, 13:08
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Manwell
Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?
Perhaps those that can’t delineate between buying an asset and starting a business are perhaps the ones that don’t understand the problem.

We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools. I have not seen a single person posting here that is supportive of enabling the Chinese to be able to purchase strategic assets like airports, or ports, or telecommunication networks - so stop trying to confuse the issue.

A minor point but to claim that Tamworth is still a military training base is a stretch too considering that BFTS shuts up shop and moves completely to East Sale in a few months.

And the final point - a job is a job when times are tough. That is totally correct - have you ever been unemployed and not knowing where the next pay cheque is coming from? Do you know many (any?) people in some of these rural towns that are being significantly affected by drought? As I’ve stated before - the Chinese starting a business results in significant economic benefit to that town. And yes jobs - because without jobs, and without the people in those towns being employed, the whole fabric of the community slowly dies.

You could probably say something similar to this happened to Virgin itself. It was struggling for cash a few years ago when times were getting tough - and the foreign (one, and then two Chinese investors) came in and supplied equity into the business. As such the airline continues, 10,000 people still have jobs and each of those people themselves spend money, pay tax and contribute to the economy. So yes - it’s about jobs.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 02:55
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink
We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools.
Primarily the Chinese are starting flying school at airports to train their civil airline pilots. Not their military pilots, not use the airports to transport cheap goods or low paid workers into the country, not use them as bases for an armed invasion of the country. They are starting them solely to take advantage of Australia’s expertise in flying training and to make their civil aviation sector safer. There’s no nefarious intent.

Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, including


Which has bombed or attacked dozens of countries compared to China’s very few, and is now considered a flawed democracy.

We allow this country to base it’s armed combat troops, spy bases and nuclear powered aircraft carriers in our country and there’s barely a peep from any side of politics or the media, but when the Chinese want to start flying schools at some remote airports that no one else would be using to train their civil airline pilots to safer standards using our expertise and provide jobs and income for struggling rural communities suddenly it becomes a secret plot to take over our country.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 03:28
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Unknown Unknowns

Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink


Perhaps those that can’t delineate between buying an asset and starting a business are perhaps the ones that don’t understand the problem. Perhaps Col. Perhaps that's just obfuscation of the problem.

We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools. I have not seen a single person posting here that is supportive of enabling the Chinese to be able to purchase strategic assets like airports, or ports, or telecommunication networks - so stop trying to confuse the issue. I'm not trying to confuse the issue, I'm trying to give you a subtle hint that there is more to something than it seems, and you are trying to suggest that the Chinese starting flying schools doesn't count, which is denial that there is a problem, and that's very much like confusing the issue to me....

A minor point but to claim that Tamworth is still a military training base is a stretch too considering that BFTS shuts up shop and moves completely to East Sale in a few months. As I said, you don't understand the scale and scope of the problem.
As Dick Cheney famously said, "There are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns." It's what you don't know you don't know is the problem, and as long as you act as if you know everything you won't learn what that is.


And the final point - a job is a job when times are tough. That is totally correct - have you ever been unemployed and not knowing where the next pay cheque is coming from? Do you know many (any?) people in some of these rural towns that are being significantly affected by drought? As I’ve stated before - the Chinese starting a business results in significant economic benefit to that town. And yes jobs - because without jobs, and without the people in those towns being employed, the whole fabric of the community slowly dies.

Yes, I have been unemployed many times, and I'm now unemployed, or you could say retired. Was it tough? Yes, it was a bit, but not worth selling my soul or selling out my country over. A man's gotta have principles or he's not a man. As I said before, and I say again, you simply don't know the size and scope of the problem. Either that or you do, and are playing dumb. The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago. That glue was social cohesion gained as a result of working together instead of against each other. Don't get me started on rural problems. That's more than you can handle.

You could probably say something similar to this happened to Virgin itself. It was struggling for cash a few years ago when times were getting tough - and the foreign (one, and then two Chinese investors) came in and supplied equity into the business. As such the airline continues, 10,000 people still have jobs and each of those people themselves spend money, pay tax and contribute to the economy. So yes - it’s about jobs.
So everything is all neatly and conveniently packaged so you can comprehend it. Isn't it great to think the average man can think he knows what's going on, and yet still have no idea? How much tax did Virgin pay last year Col? Let me see if I can dig the figure up for you.... there it is.... $0. And they've got over 2 billion more in tax losses to carry forward probably from aircraft purchases that definitely contribute to foreign economies.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 03:36
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Originally Posted by dr dre


Primarily the Chinese are starting flying school at airports to train their civil airline pilots. Not their military pilots, not use the airports to transport cheap goods or low paid workers into the country, not use them as bases for an armed invasion of the country. They are starting them solely to take advantage of Australia’s expertise in flying training and to make their civil aviation sector safer. There’s no nefarious intent.

Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, including this one
Think the thin end of the wedge, and that both, not just one, are the problem. In fact, there are many more foreign governments active in Australia at the highest levels. Some have been here so long we don't even regard them as foreign or enemies.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 07:49
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Manwell
Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?
Quite right.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" -Upton Sinclair
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 08:14
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Manwell
Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?
The Chinese are not buying out a “military training base”. Tamworth is a civilian airport run by a civilian shire council that, amongst other operators, contained a civilian flying school that had a contract for some military training.

Now the military is leaving and a civilian training operation will be set up on those premises.

And why shouldn’t those who are affected by it have a say in it? If a bunch of of loudmouths kick up a stink about this school and the Chinese decide to withdraw their investments who wants to go up to all the newly unemployed flying instructors and say to them it was a good thing they lost their jobs?

I can say those who oppose Chinese investment in our flying training sector almost certainly have the fortune of not being a newly graduated grade 3 looking for work.

Last edited by dr dre; 30th Jul 2019 at 08:33.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 08:26
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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" The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago."

but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....

You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either

Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.

If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 09:56
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
" The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago."

but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....

You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either

Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.

If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................
Asturias, we may have had to put up with it when we were young, but in case you haven't noticed, we're elders now, at least I am, and if the elders in society simply run off and kick up their heels on retirement like they're programmed to do, then the powers that be get a free ride. There is a reason previous changes didn't work for long, and it boils down to underestimating the enemy. Much like people are doing now.

Anyway, when Billy Shakespeare said "To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and, so doing, end them..." I reckon he favoured being, wouldn't you?
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 03:39
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot
If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP you are a fool. But Believe what you want. Don’t say you weren’t warned, as I said, they play the Long Game, you’ll likely be long gone and so will I. We will have sold ourselves and our kids down the river for Two Pieces of Silver. There are good reasons why ASIO and the like get concerned by these things.

At least you or your families social credit scores will be good though, hey?
What an exaggerated load of codswallop... United States and UK investment in Australia makes Chinese investment look like a pimple.
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 07:55
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"Anyway, when Billy Shakespeare said "To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and, so doing, end them..." I reckon he favoured being, wouldn't you?"

As I remember my school English Lit ( a v long time ago) Hamlet died from a poisoned sword.................................. I hope to avoid that particular ending................

But yes, I'm sure we'll find a scratched message on a wall in the Dordogne ".... bloody kids... fire... FIRE! ... no good will come of it, mark my words... but do they listen to me ? A 35 yr old elder?? Noooooooooo - it'll be wearing skins next - I tell you.. listen to me...."
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 02:04
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish?

Fairfax are reporting that the connection between Virgin and the Chinese may be replaced by Turkish Airlines:

"Turkish Airlines is interested in HNA Group's minority stake in Virgin Australia as it seeks growth in the Asia-Pacific region, according to people familiar with the matter.

Turkey’s national flag-carrier, or Turk Hava Yollari as it’s formally known, is among companies looking at HNA’s 20 per cent stake in the airline, said the people, asking not to be named because the discussions are private. Deliberations are preliminary and may not result in a deal, the people said."

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Old 1st Aug 2019, 04:05
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
What an exaggerated load of codswallop... United States and UK investment in Australia makes Chinese investment look like a pimple.
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.
While I agree with your Aerial Perspective, it's actually understating the problem, rather than an exaggerated load of codswallop. It's more a case that the Chinese invasion isn't so bad because everyone else, including countries we regard as allies, have invaded too, AND our own Government has bee infiltrated and many others have been subverted. It would be difficult to explain everything clearly using this medium, but at least the clues are here for anyone with a mind to deduce, induce, or research, the rest. The truth is out there, but most of us would pick ourselves up and hastily scurry away if we tripped over it, because we prefer blissful ignorance.
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 07:18
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Daxing this morning. Not many nearby residents.
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