Virgin and the China connection
Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?
We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools. I have not seen a single person posting here that is supportive of enabling the Chinese to be able to purchase strategic assets like airports, or ports, or telecommunication networks - so stop trying to confuse the issue.
A minor point but to claim that Tamworth is still a military training base is a stretch too considering that BFTS shuts up shop and moves completely to East Sale in a few months.
And the final point - a job is a job when times are tough. That is totally correct - have you ever been unemployed and not knowing where the next pay cheque is coming from? Do you know many (any?) people in some of these rural towns that are being significantly affected by drought? As I’ve stated before - the Chinese starting a business results in significant economic benefit to that town. And yes jobs - because without jobs, and without the people in those towns being employed, the whole fabric of the community slowly dies.
You could probably say something similar to this happened to Virgin itself. It was struggling for cash a few years ago when times were getting tough - and the foreign (one, and then two Chinese investors) came in and supplied equity into the business. As such the airline continues, 10,000 people still have jobs and each of those people themselves spend money, pay tax and contribute to the economy. So yes - it’s about jobs.
Primarily the Chinese are starting flying school at airports to train their civil airline pilots. Not their military pilots, not use the airports to transport cheap goods or low paid workers into the country, not use them as bases for an armed invasion of the country. They are starting them solely to take advantage of Australia’s expertise in flying training and to make their civil aviation sector safer. There’s no nefarious intent.
Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, including
Which has bombed or attacked dozens of countries compared to China’s very few, and is now considered a flawed democracy.
We allow this country to base it’s armed combat troops, spy bases and nuclear powered aircraft carriers in our country and there’s barely a peep from any side of politics or the media, but when the Chinese want to start flying schools at some remote airports that no one else would be using to train their civil airline pilots to safer standards using our expertise and provide jobs and income for struggling rural communities suddenly it becomes a secret plot to take over our country.
Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, including
Which has bombed or attacked dozens of countries compared to China’s very few, and is now considered a flawed democracy.
We allow this country to base it’s armed combat troops, spy bases and nuclear powered aircraft carriers in our country and there’s barely a peep from any side of politics or the media, but when the Chinese want to start flying schools at some remote airports that no one else would be using to train their civil airline pilots to safer standards using our expertise and provide jobs and income for struggling rural communities suddenly it becomes a secret plot to take over our country.
Unknown Unknowns
Perhaps those that can’t delineate between buying an asset and starting a business are perhaps the ones that don’t understand the problem. Perhaps Col. Perhaps that's just obfuscation of the problem.
We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools. I have not seen a single person posting here that is supportive of enabling the Chinese to be able to purchase strategic assets like airports, or ports, or telecommunication networks - so stop trying to confuse the issue. I'm not trying to confuse the issue, I'm trying to give you a subtle hint that there is more to something than it seems, and you are trying to suggest that the Chinese starting flying schools doesn't count, which is denial that there is a problem, and that's very much like confusing the issue to me....
A minor point but to claim that Tamworth is still a military training base is a stretch too considering that BFTS shuts up shop and moves completely to East Sale in a few months. As I said, you don't understand the scale and scope of the problem.
As Dick Cheney famously said, "There are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns." It's what you don't know you don't know is the problem, and as long as you act as if you know everything you won't learn what that is.
And the final point - a job is a job when times are tough. That is totally correct - have you ever been unemployed and not knowing where the next pay cheque is coming from? Do you know many (any?) people in some of these rural towns that are being significantly affected by drought? As I’ve stated before - the Chinese starting a business results in significant economic benefit to that town. And yes jobs - because without jobs, and without the people in those towns being employed, the whole fabric of the community slowly dies.
Yes, I have been unemployed many times, and I'm now unemployed, or you could say retired. Was it tough? Yes, it was a bit, but not worth selling my soul or selling out my country over. A man's gotta have principles or he's not a man. As I said before, and I say again, you simply don't know the size and scope of the problem. Either that or you do, and are playing dumb. The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago. That glue was social cohesion gained as a result of working together instead of against each other. Don't get me started on rural problems. That's more than you can handle.
You could probably say something similar to this happened to Virgin itself. It was struggling for cash a few years ago when times were getting tough - and the foreign (one, and then two Chinese investors) came in and supplied equity into the business. As such the airline continues, 10,000 people still have jobs and each of those people themselves spend money, pay tax and contribute to the economy. So yes - it’s about jobs.
Primarily the Chinese are starting flying school at airports to train their civil airline pilots. Not their military pilots, not use the airports to transport cheap goods or low paid workers into the country, not use them as bases for an armed invasion of the country. They are starting them solely to take advantage of Australia’s expertise in flying training and to make their civil aviation sector safer. There’s no nefarious intent.
Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, including this one
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Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" -Upton Sinclair
Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?
Now the military is leaving and a civilian training operation will be set up on those premises.
And why shouldn’t those who are affected by it have a say in it? If a bunch of of loudmouths kick up a stink about this school and the Chinese decide to withdraw their investments who wants to go up to all the newly unemployed flying instructors and say to them it was a good thing they lost their jobs?
I can say those who oppose Chinese investment in our flying training sector almost certainly have the fortune of not being a newly graduated grade 3 looking for work.
Last edited by dr dre; 30th Jul 2019 at 08:33.
" The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago."
but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....
You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either
Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.
If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................
but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....
You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either
Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.
If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................
" The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago."
but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....
You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either
Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.
If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................
but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....
You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either
Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.
If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................
Anyway, when Billy Shakespeare said "To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and, so doing, end them..." I reckon he favoured being, wouldn't you?
If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP you are a fool. But Believe what you want. Don’t say you weren’t warned, as I said, they play the Long Game, you’ll likely be long gone and so will I. We will have sold ourselves and our kids down the river for Two Pieces of Silver. There are good reasons why ASIO and the like get concerned by these things.
At least you or your families social credit scores will be good though, hey?
At least you or your families social credit scores will be good though, hey?
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.
"Anyway, when Billy Shakespeare said "To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and, so doing, end them..." I reckon he favoured being, wouldn't you?"
As I remember my school English Lit ( a v long time ago) Hamlet died from a poisoned sword.................................. I hope to avoid that particular ending................
But yes, I'm sure we'll find a scratched message on a wall in the Dordogne ".... bloody kids... fire... FIRE! ... no good will come of it, mark my words... but do they listen to me ? A 35 yr old elder?? Noooooooooo - it'll be wearing skins next - I tell you.. listen to me...."
As I remember my school English Lit ( a v long time ago) Hamlet died from a poisoned sword.................................. I hope to avoid that particular ending................
But yes, I'm sure we'll find a scratched message on a wall in the Dordogne ".... bloody kids... fire... FIRE! ... no good will come of it, mark my words... but do they listen to me ? A 35 yr old elder?? Noooooooooo - it'll be wearing skins next - I tell you.. listen to me...."
Turkish?
Fairfax are reporting that the connection between Virgin and the Chinese may be replaced by Turkish Airlines:
"Turkish Airlines is interested in HNA Group's minority stake in Virgin Australia as it seeks growth in the Asia-Pacific region, according to people familiar with the matter.
Turkey’s national flag-carrier, or Turk Hava Yollari as it’s formally known, is among companies looking at HNA’s 20 per cent stake in the airline, said the people, asking not to be named because the discussions are private. Deliberations are preliminary and may not result in a deal, the people said."
"Turkish Airlines is interested in HNA Group's minority stake in Virgin Australia as it seeks growth in the Asia-Pacific region, according to people familiar with the matter.
Turkey’s national flag-carrier, or Turk Hava Yollari as it’s formally known, is among companies looking at HNA’s 20 per cent stake in the airline, said the people, asking not to be named because the discussions are private. Deliberations are preliminary and may not result in a deal, the people said."
What an exaggerated load of codswallop... United States and UK investment in Australia makes Chinese investment look like a pimple.
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.