Virgin and the China connection

[mattyj]

You and I might know that Virgin Australia is almost wholly owned outside of Australia and that nice Richard that flies balloons around the world has completely lost interest in it but the great unwashed public may not, and some of those are not averse to a bit of illogical Asian bashing either. The story is well designed to hit the desired target

[ExtraShot]

Originally Posted by Icarus2001

How about the Australian governement planting listening devices in the cabinet room of the Timor Leste government?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austra...spying_scandal

Ha. Is that your best? What do you reckon the Chinese are listening to at the moment?

[Stickshift3000]

This recent media has apparently improved the memories of some involved parties:

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/tailw...iled-partners/

[George Glass]

So ExtraShot, you going to go to war over the Uighurs? How about we behave as an older, more mature nation and simply act in our own self interest? Spare me the moralising. Think Finland. Or maybe Singapore. Screw the hyperbole and up Defence spending to 3% of GDP. Drop the dependence on somebody else to save our sorry arses, stop being paranoid, and grow a couple. And then trade with them as normal. It’s called Real Politic.

[Rated De]

As those in the antipodes slowly awaken to reality, it is probable that the Sun is far gentler on one's back under US Hegemony rather than Chinese totalitarianism.

Defence of the realm is supposedly the first function of the Parliament, instead they hand it over for handfuls of fiat.
The Australian population has been happy to stand around BBQ's on a weekend regaling all with their investing savvy, noting how their house is worth over a million.
Of course cognitive dissonance being what it is, they tried hard to ignore the money laundered fiat bid from mainland Chinese, yet protested violently their loss of amenity and traffic jams as the immigration pumps were cranked up to three times their OECD historical average.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Rated De

As those in the antipodes slowly awaken to reality, it is probable that the Sun is far gentler on one's back under US Hegemony rather than Chinese totalitarianism.

But are we really under the “rule of Chinese totalitarianism” by allowing them to technically own a few small GA airports in the bush? Don’t forget all those regional ports run by flying schools are operated and controlled on a day to day basis by Australians and Westerners. From what I’ve heard they don’t disallow permission from third party operators to land there, and provide a valuable assistance for operators like the RFDS.

I doubt whether a Chinese communist party official has ever set foot on the grounds of any of the airfields except maybe once at the opening ceremony? They aren’t going to be used for a back door invasion of the country, nor a way to flood the country with cheap goods or migrants.

[Colonel_Klink]

Originally Posted by dr dre

But are we really under the “rule of Chinese totalitarianism” by allowing them to technically own a few small GA airports in the bush? Don’t forget all those regional ports run by flying schools are operated and controlled on a day to day basis by Australians and Westerners. From what I’ve heard they don’t disallow permission from third party operators to land there, and provide a valuable assistance for operators like the RFDS.

I doubt whether a Chinese communist party official has ever set foot on the grounds of any of the airfields except maybe once at the opening ceremony? They aren’t going to be used for a back door invasion of the country, nor a way to flood the country with cheap goods or migrants.

And this here is the point worth remembering - we are not selling off assets in this case to the Chinese. We are allowing them to open flying schools in regional Australia to train airline pilots.

There is an absolute legitimate argument to be made about whether the Australian government should be allowing the Chinese to purchase prime agricultural land, or take leases on Ports for 99 years, etc. In fact there is a whole different thread that could be started on why the Australian government shouldn’t be selling (or leasing) off strategic assets - Sydney airport anyone? Again - that is not the issue at play in this example.

I personally struggle to see what the risk is by allowing flying schools to be opened in regional towns across Australia. It’s good for local communities who will have a business now spending cash locally, employing local people (admin roles, additional airport staff, refuellers), having qualified people move to the town spending money renting houses (think flight instructors). I have worked at a flying school with Chinese cadets - the contract requires multiple townhouses to be rented, a cleaner was employed to go through each house once a week, and we had upwards of 70 students at a time each having to by food, etc at the local shopping centre. The economic benefits are not insignificant.

I wonder what the people of Meriden thought when CSWAFC closed its doors?

I wish people here would stop confusing the issue of selling off of national assets, to allowing foreign companies the ability to open a business here that otherwise would not exist.

[ExtraShot]

Originally Posted by George Glass

So ExtraShot, you going to go to war over the Uighurs? How about we behave as an older, more mature nation and simply act in our own self interest? Spare me the moralising. Think Finland. Or maybe Singapore. Screw the hyperbole and up Defence spending to 3% of GDP. Drop the dependence on somebody else to save our sorry arses, stop being paranoid, and grow a couple. And then trade with them as normal. It’s called Real Politic.

Sigh, ‘trade with them as normal’, which is all fine, until it’s not. It has been demonstrated time and time again already that the Chinese aren’t always interested in trading like the Japanese, the Singaporeans, the Americans, the Euros etc.

Why do some of us have concerns about alot of this investment? Well, as a 3000 + year old society, we know from history that the Chinese know about playing the long game.

Now Let’s see: 40000 plus to immigrate here from China year on year, for decade upon decade, with how many are still loyal to the CCP? No one can know for sure, but a threat to the Social Credit Score (or worse) of your family back in China might pull you into line should you want to adopt the freedoms of your new home. That becomes a significant voting population that get a say in our elections. We don’t like it, tough, they used our own stupidity against us, and if we reeeaaaly don’t like it, well, they own our Politicians, Ports (eg; Port of Darwin), power infrastructure, water infrastructure, and significant amounts of Agricultural land they’d by that time be using to feed their own; etc, etc.

Im all for increasing Defence spending, heck double it, a string of permanently equipped air/naval bases all across out Northern Coastline I say. However even acquiring our own Nuclear deterrent to move out of the influence of ALL other nations (and it’s pretty much the only thing that can achieve.that), isn’t going to make much of a difference in a case like the above. Are we going to nuke ourselves? Besides, as they say, why go to war when you can just buy what you want? Buy your political influence (our pollies are cheap! The Chinese know this well), and create your own voting bloc by stealth using our own bloated mass migration program.

Now, on face value I’m personally not against this deal in particular (it’s just a flying school yes?), nor necessarily am I against doing business with the Chinese, (though you have to question WHY Virgin hasn’t been upfront with who’s involved?) However, Questioning whether these business deals are in the national interest is entirely appropriate. I’d hope the FIRB would be including the DoD and and ASIO in their reviews of these kind of things as well. And if the government isnt doing it properly I’m glad some journalists, and people with the profile of Dick Smith are bringing attention to it.

But I know, I know, it’s all Reds Under the bed... or whatever.

[Asturias56]

I think you need to get out more .........

lets see FORTY THOUSAND A YEAR - well in 10 years time that 400,000 - but some will have died, some will be kids and so the number of voters- spread all across Australia ...... not significant. Of course you could coral them into one spot (maybe with e fence round it - you do fences in Australia - and perhaps some towers at the corners) but they'd only be able to elect 1 MP........

And if a faceless Chinese Corporation says to the Feds " You can't use the Port in Darwin" you just send a couple of police cars around and arrest anyone who gets in your way - unless you believe they 're going to hide a Division of the PLA on the premises somehow.....

"acquiring our own Nuclear deterrent" - just ask the Brits how much they are paying just to RENEW theirs... hell you can hardly afford to operate any conventional submarines right now

"create your own voting bloc by stealth " - ah yes - "before you leave China for Australia Comrade I want you and your family to SWEAR you'll always support whatever politicians President Xi says you should support in Australia" - because all those Poms, Greeks, Slavs., Italians, Islanders and Kiwis do the same................

[ExtraShot]

If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP you are a fool. But Believe what you want. Don’t say you weren’t warned, as I said, they play the Long Game, you’ll likely be long gone and so will I. We will have sold ourselves and our kids down the river for Two Pieces of Silver. There are good reasons why ASIO and the like get concerned by these things.

At least you or your families social credit scores will be good though, hey?

[777Nine]

Originally Posted by ExtraShot

I’m not saying every country does, but not every other country is an Authoritarian Communist Dictatorship with such extremes expansionist ambitions.

But if you insist. Off you go then. Let’s have a few examples. Why not start with Australia?

Ill start with a by no means exhaustive list of the Chinese who’s money we should apparently take no matter what;

Tiananmen, Tibet, Social credit scores, South China Seas, Taiwan, Questionable loans to impoverished nations, the purchase of political influence, Money Laundering, Lack of independent judiciary, Treatment of Uighurs, Treatment of other Religious Groups, Intellectual copyright violations, Intellectual Property Violations, No press freedom,No political freedom, A President for life...

Oh yes of course George, getting close to the old ‘It’s Raaaacist’ argument. You’ll have to try harder than that.

Questioning the the integrity and intent of those businesses linked to the CCP, and those doing business with them has absolute merit.

More of it I say.

​​​​​​​Make sure that you don't ever buy any product that is stamped 'Made in China'. Otherwise you are supporting an authoratarian dictatorship.

[ExtraShot]

Originally Posted by 777Nine

Make sure that you don't ever buy any product that is stamped 'Made in China'. Otherwise you are supporting an authoratarian dictatorship.

Indeed you are. Difficult to avoid, but certainly no reason to continue to cede sovereignty/security to them.

[morno]

Right, and back to the Virgin thing?

[Berealgetreal]

I get a little sick and tired of Virgin having the boots sunk into it because of its ownership structure. Virgin is majority foreign owned, which it is perfectly entitled to be. But what perhaps Dick Smith and the like seem to forget is that they employ 10,000 Australians. I know my family don’t give two hoots about the fact some Chinese companies own a minority stake in Virgin, they just care that the pay cheque arrives every fortnight. And I bet that is the case for the other 10000 families that Virgin have employees with.

Spot on. Is every other company in this country Australian owned? Are all companies that operate in respective countries owned by the respective citizens?

Personally I don’t care who owns a company, all I care about is a good product and service. The fact 10,000 Australian families can put food on the table pay taxes and not be on the dole is even better.

All good and well having a bash at the Chinese but watch what happens if they pull ALL their money out overnight, the place would simply collapse. The time/opportunity for self sufficiency been and gone we are now totally addicted to their business and money better get used to it as you’ll see more and more of it (if we are lucky).

[777Nine]

Originally Posted by ExtraShot

Indeed you are. Difficult to avoid, but certainly no reason to continue to cede sovereignty/security to them.

But then by the same token, their system has benefited a lot of Western companies with their cheap labour. So there is argument that a lot of businesses in this day and age rely on China (think Apple) and it hasn't been all negative (i.e the phone in our hand for a relatively cheap price).

I do agree that we shouldn't cede our sovereignty, but Australia being Australia we're too piss weak to call it like it is and then someone will bang on about being politically correct.

I feel that with the right policy and strategy, it can be managed to both country's benefit, rather than it being a one way street.

[Asturias56]

"If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP"

Would it be too much to ask you to provide some evidence of this? Other than a quote from your mate in the Legion bar late last Saturday?

perhaps an email from President Xi? Or an email or letter from anyone in China saying "for gods sake son vote PRC in the next Aussie election or we're for the re-education camp?"

Or even one of their (not so veiled) threatening newspaper articles??????

AS other have pointed out trade is a 2 way street and benefits both sides - otherwise it wouldn't happen................

[neville_nobody]

AS other have pointed out trade is a 2 way street and benefits both sides - otherwise it wouldn't happen

I would suggest that the 'one belt one road' policy is pretty much a one way street. And that road isn't heading to Canberra

[dr dre]

Something tells me, despite all the calls on this thread to “stand up to China”, there won’t be any 21yr old newly graduated Grade 3 instructors who’ll knock back a full time job at one of these Chinese owned academies because they don’t want to support an authoritarian government.

[Manwell]

Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?

[ExtraShot]

Evidence? Happy to Oblige;


Individuals

Threats to Individual migrants

Just A bit of ‘leaning’ on some individuals

Using and Influencing Students

Just a little bit of ‘Networking’

Ahh WeChat.

I’m sure we could find a few Australian Chinese Migrants who feel the same.


There’s plenty more if you need it.

Just a disclaimer in all this. The Chinese Government is not the Chinese People. As you can see from the articles above, most immigrants from that part of the world would likely want Australia to protect its National / Strategic interests as much as (no, I would say MORE than), anybody. Most of them came to escape that System, just like we will see many Hong Kong locals looking to head this way soon no doubt. They would be quietly devastated to see us letting it encroach into our Society, and seeing us not properly vetting those individuals/organisations who have less ‘freedom oriented’ intentions than most of us would like.