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Ozzies canít fly when itís windy?

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Ozzies canít fly when itís windy?

Old 17th Jul 2019, 06:40
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Exactly! Theyíre a bitch to land in a crosswind. Nearly 4,000hrs on them and I still canít quite get it right every time.
morno,
Clearly, you do not understand.
Flying any Airbus is an exercise in democracy ----- and the computer has 51% of the votes!!
Tootle pip!!
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 08:15
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
morno,
Clearly, you do not understand.
Flying any Airbus is an exercise in democracy ----- and the computer has 51% of the votes!!
Tootle pip!!
Iíll pay that one
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 08:31
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Whereas a Boeing computer has 100% of the votes and will point you straight at the ground.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 08:53
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Before this becomes a complete Airbus vs Boeing thread, having flown both, I would rather be in the LHS of the Boeing, for at least I can see/feel what the FO is doing in the crosswind.

FWIW the company that I work has a FO crosswind limit of just 15kts. A mere 10kts if they are brand new. Insurance reasons is what I have been told.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 09:29
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Near Miss View Post
FWIW the company that I work has a FO crosswind limit of just 15kts. A mere 10kts if they are brand new. Insurance reasons is what I have been told.
My company letís FOs fly to CAT I minima and land in X-wind up to the aircraft limits once out of the first 100 hours on type. (Generally the guy in the right seat has 1000s of hours but.)

I was suprised to learn Qantas 737 FOs have these arbitrary limits. Do Q WB FOs have similar limits?
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 09:40
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slezy9 View Post


My company let’s FOs fly to CAT I minima and land in X-wind up to the aircraft limits once out of the first 100 hours on type. (Generally the guy in the right seat has 1000s of hours but.)

I was suprised to learn Qantas 737 FOs have these arbitrary limits. Do Q WB FOs have similar limits?
Yep, it’s not fleet specific.

It’s a strange rule, because you may be in the RHS with 3000hrs on type and the guy/gal in the LHS may have less than 100hrs on type, but they are the ones doing the 40kt xwind landing cause that’s the policy. Don’t think the sim training for the endorsement is any different whether you have 3 bars or 4 bars on your shoulder.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 10:57
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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I was suprised to learn Qantas 737 FOs have these arbitrary limits. Do Q WB FOs have similar limits?
It’s all to do with Insurance Premiums!
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 05:32
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Whereas a Boeing computer has 100% of the votes and will point you straight at the ground.
Lookleft,
And what do you fly??
Are you genuinely qualified on ANY Boeing aircraft?? Or Airbus??
And as for the B737MAX, as the pilot of the aircraft Bali-Djakarta (evening before the Lionair loss) demonstrated, actioning the "Uncommanded Stab Trim" recall item in a timely fashion solved the problem.
You really can't help yourself, can you??
Tootle pip!!

PS: The last Commonwealth election results must have been very distressing for you??

Last edited by LeadSled; 18th Jul 2019 at 05:35. Reason: PS:
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 21:37
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post

Itís all to do with Insurance Premiums!
Doesn't sound right to me

So then Jetstar isn't affected by this too?

Also doesn't qf self insure?

A bizarre practice
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 01:13
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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And as for the B737MAX, as the pilot of the aircraft Bali-Djakarta (evening before the Lionair loss) demonstrated, actioning the "Uncommanded Stab Trim" recall item in a timely fashion solved the problem.
So are you suggesting that the FAA EASA and all the other aviation regulatory authorities have over reacted to the Stab Trim issue? Do you think that the grounding of the MAX into next year is just a global conspiracy against a design that only a select few of truly brilliant aviation minds understand? You probably think that the pilots of the Comet should have done a more thorough walk around.
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 02:37
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
So are you suggesting that the FAA EASA and all the other aviation regulatory authorities have over reacted to the Stab Trim issue? Do you think that the grounding of the MAX into next year is just a global conspiracy against a design that only a select few of truly brilliant aviation minds understand? You probably think that the pilots of the Comet should have done a more thorough walk around.
I think all hes saying is that if those Lion pilots followed the memory item there would not have been any fatalities on that flight. Regardless of the MAXs flaws, that recall item wouldíve saved lives that day.
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 03:13
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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There were two fatal accidents involving the MAX. The prelim of the Ethiopian accident stated that the crew did follow the memory item and it didn't resolve the problem of the flight control software pointing the nose of the aircraft straight at the ground. Boeing were able to claim it was crew problem after the first accident but not the second. Subsequent testing of the software has revealed further problems with the software and flaws with the entire setup.
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 06:51
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Maggie Island View Post


I think all hes saying is that if those Lion pilots followed the memory item there would not have been any fatalities on that flight. Regardless of the MAXs flaws, that recall item wouldíve saved lives that day.
That will explain why the aircraft is grounded for months. NOT!
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 09:28
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Love the thread drift! Let’s get back to the original topic, SYD and MEL, both these airports are over capacity and will be a cluster for the next decade at least. South East QLD is leading the aviation pack at the moment, proper parallel runways next year in BNE, Wellcamp, Gold Coast now with an ILS, and Sunny coast with a real wide body runway ready next year. We are leading the pack and it will result in pulling massive numbers of international flights into QLD, as Sco Mo said “How good is QLD?” The fact is we are eating you southern states up like an old sausage. Sometimes just getting on with the job yields results and this a point of note.
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 14:14
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Maggie Island View Post


I think all hes saying is that if those Lion pilots followed the memory item there would not have been any fatalities on that flight. Regardless of the MAXs flaws, that recall item wouldíve saved lives that day.
Prior to MCAS activation in the ET accident, it didn't help the situation that the crew left TOGA power set until impact. Presumably the Stick Shaker activation at lift off distracted the crew such they forgot to control the speed /power. Light aircraft (short sector) and full power will cause big problems well before any MCAS activation.
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 07:45
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
So are you suggesting that the FAA EASA and all the other aviation regulatory authorities have over reacted to the Stab Trim issue? Do you think that the grounding of the MAX into next year is just a global conspiracy against a design that only a select few of truly brilliant aviation minds understand? You probably think that the pilots of the Comet should have done a more thorough walk around.
Lookleft,
You haven't answered the question: What Boeing or Airbus aircraft are you qualified on??

I strongly suggest you re-read the publicly available Max8 information from both accidents ---- with an open mind ---- as long as it is not open at both ends.

At no time have I suggested or intimated that there is/was not a software problem, and I have personal experience of what un-serviceable AoA sensors can do --- I am not an armchair critic in this situation.

Yes, there were problems, but in both cases, at least initially, the aeroplanes were flyable. Read the facts. Out of Bali, the crew "flew the aeroplane" as per the QRH non-normal procedures.

Indeed, a good friend of mine has just completed a B737 Classic type rating in US, and the problems of stalling out a stab, and how to handle it were pretty much the same as my first B707 endorsement, or my UK CAA and FAA type rating flight test for a B707/720 many years ago ---- some "issues" are not new ---- and in ALL cases, the stab trim cutout switches are in exactly the same place.

And just to stir the pot, what Comet losses were you referring to --- the takeoff "accidents" ---- or have you forgotten them, if you ever knew about them ---- and, if you were to delve into the final volume of the Inspectors report into the Comet in-flight breakups, you would find advice from Boeing (yes, Boeing) to DeHavilland forecasting the fatigue problems ---- did you know that??

Tootle pip!!
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Old 21st Jul 2019, 07:56
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
Sorry about the thread drift, but our mate LOOKLEFT (a message about his politics, perhaps?) just has to attack me at every available opportunity.
I have no idea why.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 00:08
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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To paraphrase an old saying"Those with glass jaws should not throw punches". Back to the point of the thread. The problem is that cross wind landings are considered to be a risky maneuver by airline management and therefore have to have limits imposed on them. The 30kt crosswind exercise in the sim does not have the same feel as a gusty northerly on 27 in the middle of summer. Too many F/O's that I fly with treat it as a fly by numbers exercise by applying X amount of rudder with Y amount of aileron rather than look out the window and modify their control inputs to keep it tracking along the centreline. The various manufacturers manuals that I have studied during endorsement training describe the technique but it is like learning to play golf from a book. By the time you are flying a jet, cross wind technique should be second nature. This second nature however is very much influenced by the career path that got you to the jet in the first place. One of my favourite memories in over 30 years of professional flying is when I was completing my line training on the Saab with Kendell Airlines. The training Captain was more interested in showing how good he was and how useless I was. I was the PF onto 27 in Melbourne with a strong northerly blowing. On board was Don Kendell so it was his aeroplane that I was flying and as he was also a pilot, he would be judging my skills. He came into the crew room afterwards and said in that distinctive voice "Who did that landing?". When I told him it was me he said. "Well if you can land it like that in that wind you are doing alright." It is the same technique I have used in Metro's Boeings and Airbus.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 04:32
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
The problem is that cross wind landings are considered to be a risky maneuver by airline management and therefore have to have limits imposed on them. The 30kt crosswind exercise in the sim does not have the same feel as a gusty northerly on 27 in the middle of summer. Too many F/O's that I fly with treat it as a fly by numbers exercise by applying X amount of rudder with Y amount of aileron rather than look out the window and modify their control inputs to keep it tracking along the centreline. .
So what's the solution? If these FOs are not allowed to ever land the aircraft above some arbitrary x-wind limit then how are they ever supposed to get better? The first time they get to land the aircraft at the limit will be when they are in the left seat, not ideal!! With more and more cadets / low hour guys and gals ending up in the right seat there has to be some give! (yes I agree the Sim doesn't adequately represent a gusty x-wind)

Thankfully my airline has no limits for FOs (for x-wind) other than the manufacturers limit.


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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 07:45
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
To paraphrase an old saying"Those with glass jaws should not throw punches"..
Lookleft,
In your case, I would certainly agree.
Tootle pip!!
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