Jetstar EBA 2019
That assumes an unlimited supply (like they did with pilots) of $40 bogans. Even they will get jack of management incompetence eating into their pi$$ drinking time in Bali.
Last edited by gordonfvckingramsay; 31st Dec 2019 at 01:14.
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Exactly. No one should be scared of a lockout. All it means is that the employer is preventing the locked out employees from performing any work and therefore will not be paying them for the days they are locked out:
https://www.fwc.gov.au/industrial-ac...loyer-response
In the case of JQ pilots this is effectively closing down the business for the period of the lockout. This action would likely do much more harm to the business than to the pilots.
PG
Last edited by Popgun; 31st Dec 2019 at 01:01.
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My concern is what would a protracted industrial dispute achieve?
The AFAP have already conceded that they will bargain within Qantas’ 3% wages policy and that even if we get what we want, we will still be the lowest paid airline pilots in the country.
All they seem to be arguing about at the moment is a minimum daily credit and an expansion of the high line allowance (which is an opt in system to get a dollar amount per duty hour in exchange for extra standby days).
These items aren’t personally that significant to me, but others may feel that it’s worth the fight. Back of the clocks are becoming overnights, that’s a massive issue resolved as far as I’m concerned.
I honestly don't understand the position of 'oh well, sure, we're paid the least and do the most, and our management is cleaning up making millions, but thats ok I guess.' I don't mean to be disrespectful but you're never going to get anything in life unless you're prepared to fight for it. The company would happily pay us all minimum wage if they could get away with it, the fact that you're paid 100k+ a year is solely because people fought for it, and our labour is in limited supply.
This is legal, protected action. We're not asking to be the best paid pilots in the industry, not even close. We just don't want to be left miles behind in last place whilst others massively profit off us. I don't think thats particularly unreasonable.
To illustrate how absurd our position currently is, if we did get a pure 15% pay rise as the company claims we're chasing, we'd STILL be the lowest paid pilots of the major 4.
If that doesn't put our negotiation in perspective then I don't know what possibly could.
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Looking ahead, A Level 4 Tiger and, Virgin captain (73,A320) will earn north of 350,000, in the the middle of the impending next decade. Comparing comparable hours (900), o/t, s/b, eba inflation, allowances between.
On the same comparable basis, using the same figures as above, a Jetstar Captain is about 270,000, not even mentioning half the fleet will be 230 seating. The next problem is the gap is growing positively toward TT and VA. Thats not even taking into account MAX 10 wage increases at the VA Group next decade, its fairly clear that 321neo wages increases will be few and thin at this mob.
Paddleboat is right. Getting off the lowest paid ladder shouldn't be the focus here, closing that gap needs to be. The calculator does not lie. Run the numbers.
Otherwise 2030 will arrive and you will be 100 grand behind. Possibly even more.
On the same comparable basis, using the same figures as above, a Jetstar Captain is about 270,000, not even mentioning half the fleet will be 230 seating. The next problem is the gap is growing positively toward TT and VA. Thats not even taking into account MAX 10 wage increases at the VA Group next decade, its fairly clear that 321neo wages increases will be few and thin at this mob.
Paddleboat is right. Getting off the lowest paid ladder shouldn't be the focus here, closing that gap needs to be. The calculator does not lie. Run the numbers.
Otherwise 2030 will arrive and you will be 100 grand behind. Possibly even more.
Last edited by wheels_down; 31st Dec 2019 at 03:02.
My concern is what would a protracted industrial dispute achieve?
The AFAP have already conceded that they will bargain within Qantas’ 3% wages policy and that even if we get what we want, we will still be the lowest paid airline pilots in the country.
All they seem to be arguing about at the moment is a minimum daily credit and an expansion of the high line allowance (which is an opt in system to get a dollar amount per duty hour in exchange for extra standby days).
These items aren’t personally that significant to me, but others may feel that it’s worth the fight. Back of the clocks are becoming overnights, that’s a massive issue resolved as far as I’m concerned.
Those items like 5hrs MDC are fairly significant because they basically allow QF board to be seen keeping its 3% but in the reality if those items are applied to standbys and all duties .... those guys/girls won’t be working 3 months for FREE when compared to Tiger Air, the 20% pay gap will close significantly.
do you genuinely think it’s fair for our Pilots to work 3 months for free compared to Tiger’s despite flying 50 extra pax around on a321’s? Not to mention no joint seniority or ability to join mid-way up the parents company seniority list as TIger/virgin receive.
Also you’ve got to know those BOCs were dangerous, I guess it’s more a thanks for fixing what should of never been....
Looking ahead, A Level 4 Tiger and, Virgin captain (73,A320) will earn north of 350,000, in the the middle of the impending next decade. Comparing comparable hours (900), o/t, s/b, eba inflation, allowances between.
On the same comparable basis, using the same figures as above, a Jetstar Captain is about 270,000, not even mentioning half the fleet will be 230 seating. The next problem is the gap is growing positively toward TT and VA. Thats not even taking into account MAX 10 wage increases at the VA Group next decade, its fairly clear that 321neo wages increases will be few and thin at this mob.
Paddleboat is right. Getting off the lowest paid ladder shouldn't be the focus here, closing that gap needs to be. The calculator does not lie. Run the numbers.
Otherwise 2030 will arrive and you will be 100 grand behind. Possibly even more.
On the same comparable basis, using the same figures as above, a Jetstar Captain is about 270,000, not even mentioning half the fleet will be 230 seating. The next problem is the gap is growing positively toward TT and VA. Thats not even taking into account MAX 10 wage increases at the VA Group next decade, its fairly clear that 321neo wages increases will be few and thin at this mob.
Paddleboat is right. Getting off the lowest paid ladder shouldn't be the focus here, closing that gap needs to be. The calculator does not lie. Run the numbers.
Otherwise 2030 will arrive and you will be 100 grand behind. Possibly even more.
There's a not unreasonable chance that Virgin and a very good chance that Tiger will have gone broke before the the middle of the impending next decade. Does business viability figure in your calculations anywhere?
When making all of these wondrous prognostications about what Tiger and Virgin Captain's will be earning in the the middle of the impending next decade, does it not concern you that that business has run up losses of over $1 billion in just the last four years? It's been the best part of a decade since the airline made any money.
There's a not unreasonable chance that Virgin and a very good chance that Tiger will have gone broke before the the middle of the impending next decade. Does business viability figure in your calculations anywhere?
There's a not unreasonable chance that Virgin and a very good chance that Tiger will have gone broke before the the middle of the impending next decade. Does business viability figure in your calculations anywhere?
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The future is difficult to assess!
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When making all of these wondrous prognostications about what Tiger and Virgin Captain's will be earning in the the middle of the impending next decade, does it not concern you that that business has run up losses of over $1 billion in just the last four years? It's been the best part of a decade since the airline made any money.
There's a not unreasonable chance that Virgin and a very good chance that Tiger will have gone broke before the the middle of the impending next decade. Does business viability figure in your calculations anywhere?
There's a not unreasonable chance that Virgin and a very good chance that Tiger will have gone broke before the the middle of the impending next decade. Does business viability figure in your calculations anywhere?
In the exact same way that executive remuneration neither makes nor breaks the profits either. Otherwise we would be seeing disastrous losses at the QF Group given the disturbingly high levels of take home pay by management in recent years.
No, this resistance to agreeing to a fair and respectable new pilot contract at JQ is all about ideology and ego...not economics.
The proof of this is the many denied non-monetary contract conditions that would cost the business absolutely nothing.
Adversarial ideology...not dollars and sense.
PG
Pilot salaries are such a tiny fraction of the total costs of running a large airline that they will neither make nor break the ensuing profits.
In the exact same way that executive remuneration neither makes nor breaks the profits either. Otherwise we would be seeing disastrous losses at the QF Group given the disturbingly high levels of take home pay by management in recent years.
No, this resistance to agreeing to a fair and respectable new pilot contract at JQ is all about ideology and ego...not economics.
The proof of this is the many denied non-monetary contract conditions that would cost the business absolutely nothing.
Adversarial ideology...not dollars and sense.
PG
In the exact same way that executive remuneration neither makes nor breaks the profits either. Otherwise we would be seeing disastrous losses at the QF Group given the disturbingly high levels of take home pay by management in recent years.
No, this resistance to agreeing to a fair and respectable new pilot contract at JQ is all about ideology and ego...not economics.
The proof of this is the many denied non-monetary contract conditions that would cost the business absolutely nothing.
Adversarial ideology...not dollars and sense.
PG
Onload onto JQ aircraft is also painful when it’s a first come best dressed basis. It should be DOJ just like mainline.
Anyway it’s a new year. Happy new year to my Jetstar peers and I hope you get a fair and reasonable deal early this year.
Yeah, which discriminates against operational staff who have to book when leave slots are released, verse office staff and management who can book well ahead.
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Adversarial ideology...not dollars and sense.
lounge access, commuter lounge access etc
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QF pilots have an 8 week roster while JQ pilots are monthly. So JQ pilots usually get second pick dregs on their own metal (or plastic) and then of course are solid second class pariahs on the mothership aircraft as well. (JQ captains bumped by QF SOs...JQ FOs bumped by QF Flight Attendants)
Some are more equal than others within the highly profitable Qantas Group. It is, for example, salt-wounded situations like this that have the guys (and gals) quite appropriately drawing a line in the sand.
Make EVERYONE equal on ALL group aircraft; Or, if a 2 caste system is insisted upon, a JQ staff member MUST be placed ahead of ALL QF staff on a JQ aeroplane. I know many orange poor cousins who have had a gut full of being treated so disrespectfully.
PG
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Your viewpoint is obtuse.
It is a matter of fairness and parity (and costs so small to be absolutely irrelevant).
If a QF pilot and a JQ pilot are both paxing duty travel on a QF aircraft SYD-HNL to operate an aircraft back to SYD, why should the QF pilot get to relax in the lounge when the JQ pilot is barred from entry? It is just petty, bloody mindedness.
PG