Jetstar EBA 2019

[Big Jan]

FOI Mark Yourself AS Safe

Where are you MATE ?

We're lost without your insight MATE.

Hope your'e ok MATE.

[Popgun]

I’m no bush lawyer but I suspect they are a LONG way short of PIA termination by the FWC and an arbitrated outcome:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/industrial-ac...n/powers-the-0

The thing I’ll never quite understand is the irrational massive hit to the bottom line that this company’s management already encourages and experiences due to poorly treated, disgruntled pilots. Sure, you won’t find these costs on a pretty, multi-coloured spreadsheet, but they are there. “Fraudulent” sick leave is one that has been mentioned previously but there are many more.

For such a small amount of company coin and a few respectfully improved conditions theses costs would all but disappear. Just use smoke and mirrors to hide the increase if they need to be able to spruik compliance with their 3% employee wage policy.

While I understand management’s win at all costs approach to this struggle, it would be a case of winning the battle but not the war. The war for these rightly angry JQ crews will go on ad-infinitum whether the spreadsheet can pinpoint it or not. The company will never be able to counter the guerilla tactics of 700 armies of 1.

I wish the JQ crew all the best with this respectful stand against corporate greed and hope 2020 brings some sensible, rational behaviour that enables a positive outcome for the profit-driven shareholders, bonus-driven management, hard working, productive pilots and cost conscious punters!

PG

[Ollie Onion]

So what now, the Company seems to be daring more action by openly stating they are ready for a protracted industrial action backed up by cancellations to the flying programme with no PIA announced. I assume they will try and break the strike somehow knowing that any subsequent ‘negotiations’ will be easier if the pilots aren’t united.

[Chris2303]

Unless Joyce grounds them like he did in 2011

Remember that one reason he grounded the airline was because it was "unsafe for the pilots to fly because they wouldn't be concentrating on their work given the industrial climate at the time"

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Originally Posted by Chris2303

Remember that one reason he grounded the airline was because it was "unsafe for the pilots to fly because they wouldn't be concentrating on their work given the industrial climate at the time"

Which was an excuse he can only run once I would say. The industrial climate across the board is a distraction to everyone and PIA would only see an improvement in ones state of mind. I also can’t see the shareholders backing Alan if his approach cost as much as it did last time.

[The Bullwinkle]

“Fraudulent” sick leave

Jetstar management see this as a major problem, rather than what it actually is, just a symptom of a much larger problem.

[Popgun]

Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle

Jetstar management see this as a major problem, rather than what it actually is, just a symptom of a much larger problem.

Its a shame they can't concede that to fix the problem is simple, win-win and will not in any way affect the sustainability of the business.

No airline management will EVER be able to stem the use of sick leave and fatigue leave while pilots and medical practitioners have the final sign off on whether the crew member is indeed sick or fatigued. That's a war they can never win.

Me thinks the carrot approach will yield better results than attempting the big stick.

PG

[Sunfish]

The problem is that wages come out of a different bucket from sick leave, fuel usage and the costs of delays. So manager A gets a bonus for keeping wages static while managers B, C and D get it in the neck for fuel usage, overtime and delays. This is what these moron managers can’t understand: almost any employee can cost the company many times their wages and the company won’t even know its happened.
’
As I said, I have friends - 2 parents, 2 teenage girls, venting all over facebook, instagram and twitter over Jetstars lousy performance - but marketing will wear the cost of that behaviour, not engineering or operations.

[lucille]

Originally Posted by Rated De

Precisely.
Soft Corruption works a treat.
The heads of ASIC, APRA, ACCC et al are all likely members on the non disclosed, non discussed, non audited example of Australian corruption.

The only part of Fair Work Australia that is fair is the name. The "commission" stacked with right wing zealots appointed by the same idiots that are happy to fiddle (in Hawaii) why Sydney burns.

You may care to recall that the last significant pilot’s attempt at industrial action was pro-actively smashed by a Labor government led by a former ACTU leader. You can’t get any more union friendly than that combination.

The memory of the demolition of 1200+ careers still resonates across the world to this day. To a great extent, this has emboldened airline managers in their IR negotiations with pilot unions.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

It has also muddied the waters somewhat when it comes to reading the current airline industry climate.

[Gear in transit]

Originally Posted by lucille

You may care to recall that the last significant pilot’s attempt at industrial action was pro-actively smashed by a Labor government led by a former ACTU leader. You can’t get any more union friendly than that combination.

Yes perhaps. But the 'requests' back then were VASTLY different to what the requests are today, nor is there a wages accord that the pilot group are trying to fight save for maybe Alans wage accord.... This problem is not unique to the aviation industry as we all know. Theres also a different landscape with fair work, PROTECTED industrial action and so on. About the only thing the same as previous industrial action is the name and the group of employees taking it.

The JQ pilot group also has a substantial number of pilots who were nothing to do with, nor couldn't give two hoots about the previous industrial action.

To a great extent, this has emboldened airline managers in their IR negotiations with pilot unions.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[Buttscratcher]

Originally Posted by Gear in transit

nor couldn't give two hoots about the previous industrial action.

The number of 'hoots' is irrelevant, but only the foolish would dismiss the value of History.
The 'hoot-less' would do well not to ignore the lessons of the past.
Unless, of course, they are better and much smarter now.

[Popgun]

Originally Posted by Buttscratcher

The number of 'hoots' is irrelevant, but only the foolish would dismiss the value of History.
The 'hoot-less' would do well not to ignore the lessons of the past.
Unless, of course, they are better and much smarter now.

But there aren’t many relevant lessons!

One lesson might be a caution not to hand in your resignation. No one is being asked to do that!

Perhaps another might be a caution not to engage in any unprotected actions. Again, no one is being asked to do anything unprotected.

The industrial laws prevailing today are completely different from those of 30 years ago. There is a lot of information freely available on the FWC website for those who would like to become more informed regarding this IR legislation.

Of course, there are still a few left (tiny, tiny minority) in the JQ ranks from that stressful and sorry time 30 years ago. Their sensitivities must be respected and given empathy.

Much as some execs might hate it, nobody can be sacked or punished for exercising their lawful right to PIA.

PG

[Buttscratcher]

Fair enough, PG, thanks.
There were enough issues there to still remain relevant, IMO.
The 'not giving a hoot' line grinds my gears, I admit.
Looking back, it seems obvious that a carefully orchestrated trap was set and sprung....just didn't see it at the time.
Lots of assurances, a lot of faith in 'the senior blokes and the system.
Turned pear-shaped real quick.
I wouldn't like another lockout, but y'all can't just roll-over either.
I have no answers, but to ignore the lessons of history is a peril in itself.

[Sunfish]

Comment on Facebook from a friend:
’

........ Have got as far as Sydney and have been waiting 5 hours with 2 cancelled flights so far - listed for the last flight out tonight but not looking good. I have to be honest and not talk sour grapes but the service has been nothing short of ****house, no body has done anything to be of help, we have had to load our bags 3 times for different flights and each time when cancelled we had to go down to arrivals (sic because we didn’t go anywhere) te
Pickup our bags and then get in line and book again.
Each time the bitch at the counter refused to take the tags off - just a Mexican standoff.
They charged us extra baggage - then when we didn’t go anywhere and had to re check in the bitch tried to charge us again.
****Star I hope you go out of business and people lose jobs because most -maybe not all - should not be working in this type of “people” industry . Rude, short and uncaring and would not be upset to see them on the dole line.
They totally deserve their “self” given one star.
May you fail miserably and disappear you pack of rude Flogs‘

[Gear in transit]

Originally Posted by Buttscratcher

There were enough issues there to still remain relevant, IMO.
The 'not giving a hoot' line grinds my gears, I admit.
Looking back, it seems obvious that a carefully orchestrated trap was set and sprung....just didn't see it at the time.

Apologies if it offended, it wasn’t a deliberate trap nor a stab at your past. I meant it more as many of the younger generation involved with this PIA just simply don’t have the emotion tied back to that year. Doesn’t mean they don’t respect you, your choices or the past, but simply they have no attachment to it and so press on. No malice intended!

[Buttscratcher]

Appreciated, sir

[mulisector]

Might be a silly question but ... why would anyone be so scared of a lockout, last time QF shut for 2 days and government forced it to re-open. Seemed like company lost a lot more money than the pilots 2 days of pay ?

Currently at Jetstar a LVL 2 FO works the equivalent of 3 months for FREE every year compared to if they were on a Tiger Air contract... surely no ones concerned about loosing a few days pay.

plus tiger have the ability to progress to their parent company Virgin through a joint seniority list.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Originally Posted by mulisector

Might be a silly question but ... why would anyone be so scared of a lockout, last time QF shut for 2 days and government forced it to re-open. Seemed like company lost a lot more money than the pilots 2 days of pay ?

Currently at Jetstar a LVL 2 FO works the equivalent of 3 months for FREE every year compared to if they were on a Tiger Air contract... surely no ones concerned about loosing a few days pay.

plus tiger have the ability to progress to their parent company Virgin through a joint seniority list.

Thanks for your thoughts.

My concern is what would a protracted industrial dispute achieve?

The AFAP have already conceded that they will bargain within Qantas’ 3% wages policy and that even if we get what we want, we will still be the lowest paid airline pilots in the country.

All they seem to be arguing about at the moment is a minimum daily credit and an expansion of the high line allowance (which is an opt in system to get a dollar amount per duty hour in exchange for extra standby days).

These items aren’t personally that significant to me, but others may feel that it’s worth the fight. Back of the clocks are becoming overnights, that’s a massive issue resolved as far as I’m concerned.

[chickoroll]

Originally Posted by Sunfish

Comment on Facebook from a friend:
’ Have got as far as Sydney and have been waiting 5 hours with 2 cancelled flights so far - listed for the last flight out tonight but not looking good. I have to be honest and not talk sour grapes but the service has been nothing short of ****house, no body has done anything to be of help, we have had to load our bags 3 times for different flights and each time when cancelled we had to go down to arrivals (sic because we didn’t go anywhere) te
Pickup our bags and then get in line and book again.
Each time the bitch at the counter refused to take the tags off - just a Mexican standoff.
They charged us extra baggage - then when we didn’t go anywhere and had to re check in the bitch tried to charge us again.
****Star I hope you go out of business and people lose jobs because most -maybe not all - should not be working in this type of “people” industry . Rude, short and uncaring and would not be upset to see them on the dole line.
They totally deserve their “self” given one star.
May you fail miserably and disappear you pack of rude Flogs‘

Then they will have another fire sale $40 flights to anywhere and that Bogan will be back with a singlet and thongs.