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Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 13th Nov 2019, 18:38
  #81 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 97
So the Feds have applied for a PIA ballot. I havenít seen anything from AIPA..... anyone else?
Sparrows. is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 19:50
  #82 (permalink)  
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Virgin NZ eba isnít far off the Virgin Aus rate FYI. Recently voted eba. Virgin group narrow body rates are all pretty similar now only differences are the work rules.

In the Tiger instance the offer changed markedly during PIA.

I see it getting ugly as you have the record breaking CEO salary, record breaking profits and lowest conditions. Might very well be a December to remember.

Hope it helps, all the best.
Berealgetreal is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 20:12
  #83 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
AIPA are going to do a survey, great plan. PIA should IMO just be a withdrawal of cooperation, wonít take long for the wheels to fall off. Best of luck.
dragon man is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 21:04
  #84 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lake Como
Posts: 47
AIPA are going to do a survey
Followed by a comfort letter?
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 21:31
  #85 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 24
The surveys are actually important. In the early part of my career we weren’t asked what we wanted to give or get. Now the members are asked for their opinions to give guidance to the negotiating team.
Window heat is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 21:38
  #86 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by Window heat View Post
The surveys are actually important. In the early part of my career we werenít asked what we wanted to give or get. Now the members are asked for their opinions to give guidance to the negotiating team.
So is it the case that AIPA will survey AFTER months of "negotiation"? What was talked about for months on end?

Rated De is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 21:58
  #87 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
It is actually a little from column A and a little from column B.
Low Fare Airlines whilst a real alternative (like SWA) actually didn't, despite the lack of grandfathering, government ownership or even protectionism actually push Low Wages.
The low wage phenomena was driven by consulting firms with a spreadsheet approach to running airlines.

They included:
  • $50(or so) million of seed capital
  • Multi user terminals
  • Leased fleet
  • Terms and conditions whereby more of the salary/wage was at risk.
The idea was have a go and see how it works. That there have been scores of start ups and failures in Europe is testament to :

1. The limitation of unit cost control
2. Response of established carriers.

Key in this was the oversupply of pilots, usually self funded such that an "airline" had minimal investment in and as such was low risk strategy.The externality borne by the "applicant" who probably paid for testing and attendance. In the case of Ryanair uniforms too.
Perhaps the saddest irony of the Jetstar model is that instead of complimenting the full service offering, myopic management focused on IR and setting work groups against each other. Convicted criminal former CFO Gregg said precisely that at a Parliamentary enquiry: "Jetstar would add competitive tension to labour unit cost" (paraphrase)

Not content, myopic management driven by spreadsheets saw JQ the answer to everything. Doing so they neglected the Achilles heel of low fare airlines: yield.
Jumping the shark is a Qantas specialty so they took JQ International. They hide it in the accounts but it bleeds cash just like the franchises.
For an airline the size of JQ it exhibits classic overscale tendencies: Too much capacity for the revenue it generates.

Mr Evans has his work cut out for him.

The stellar expansion enjoyed by JQ pilots at the expense of Qantas pilots is well documented. Pilots quickly gained promotions while Qantas languished.
The business is now over scale. That means JQ pilots have a fight on their hands.
As JQ was deployed against Qantas, it is probable Qantas will be deployed against JQ as will Network aviation or others in a conga line of acquisitions.....
If Mr Evans and JQ surrender any ground then the revenue margin, already narrow, may well invert!
Thatís a great prťcis of my industrial experience in the company. The industrial wedge of JQ took over from ďconvergence with VirginĒ when Borghetti pushed their cost base through the roof. The average QF pilot has had a 10 year career freeze at the expense of the JQ investment, all in all a positive experience for those who chose to go Orange. Joyce is so invested in JQ that he cannot let it fail, despite being overscale as pointed out. Just as Dixon was setting up himself for a massive payout over the years leading up to the Allco buyout, Joyce is setting up his payout, if JQ costs go the way of Virgin, the share price tanks and he stands to lose millions.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 21:59
  #88 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 40
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A little birdie,

Thankyou for your considered and constructive contribution /s

HomeJames is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 22:39
  #89 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 319
Such a w****r ECAM. I’m 42.

disappointing coming from a person in a group who, by other looks of things, might need some support.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 23:06
  #90 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Oz
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Originally Posted by A little birdie View Post

Lol. Nice try youngling. Not by a long shot. Even if I were the only people who think thatís an effective retort are ignorant children. You didnít even have the smarts to think up your own retort. D-. More effort required.

No Idea Either is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 01:20
  #91 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
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This is playing right into the companies hands. At heir latest roadshows in NZ they dropped the old chestnut that if the EBA can’t be resolved or becomes too costly they may have to move flying and or new airframes to other entities as the Aussie operation will have made itself too expensive. Now obviously we can see what they are trying to do but I don’t think they will be upset at this development as they are quite skilled in divide and conquer. Also the company seem quite keen on opening the NZ contract negotiation soon which would mean both the EBA and NZ CEA under negotiation at the same time, I wonder why they would want that!
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 03:26
  #92 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,030
Ollie I can understand that playing out in Kiwi land, that operation loses money. It would probably be cheaper outsourcing the entire Kiwi operation to Oz crews.

Iím not overly sure they would throw market share away because of pilot wages. Itís not the wages, itís ceding share to Scurrah which he wonít do.
wheels_down is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 04:55
  #93 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Qantas IR is a huge empire. Creating conflict and dissent, pitting people against each other.

They will spare no expense to prove a point industrial. Economics, logic and common sense won't sway them it is ideology.
Rated De is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 06:43
  #94 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 283
Ch7 news Melb just tore down JQ pilots.. In a segment about "jetstar pilots ruining your Christmas plans", the reporter said simply "jetstar pilots earn $330,00 a year!" and "jetstar are looking to instead continue negotiations to avoid pilots grounding flights"..

Someone's gotta keep up with the game and counter these highly one sided reports to the masses...
TimmyTee is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 07:10
  #95 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
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How much advertising revenue does a pilots union purchase in the media market? How about the Qantas group? There is your answer.

The commercial media is there to make a profit and facilitate influence to the highest bidder. The truth, a balanced story from the commercial media, good luck with that.

Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.
--George Orwell
CurtainTwitcher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 08:15
  #96 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Die Suddetenland
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Who gives a shite what the news say - it ain’t a popularity contest.

You just gotta have a thick skin, don’t read the news and have resolve.

Good luck to the JQ Crews. If Ryanair guys can strike, and Hong Kongers can take it to the Chinese, I’m sure they can invoke their industrial rights in a democracy.
Oriana is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 08:27
  #97 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Every Battle is won before it is ever fought.

- Sun Tzu

The media and established power structures including employment relations are heavily slanted one way. It sure isn't the way of the employee.
No point fighting their strengths or trying to counter them. They have deeper pockets.

This is won in Operating Revenue impact.

With a finely balanced low yield business, even just not answering the phone when crewing decide to call is powerful.
Asymmetric options will wrong foot the well armoured dinosaur!
Rated De is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 08:57
  #98 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Hyperspace
Posts: 4

So someone in the negotiating team thought.... ‘I know, we’ll outsmart em, lets do PIA...... check mate Jetstar.’ I can just imagine the backslapping and grandstanding after 50 beers at the BP.

Really? Hats off for strategic thinking boys.

JQ will drag you through the media and internal Comms. Be prepared to experience the ire of the general public and your other work colleagues alike.

Moreover - are you ready for the bigger fight with the mother ship and its leader?

Right now throughout the Qantas Group (and Virgin) non operational staff on significantly less $$ than pilots are being handed letters and told to eff off by the 15th December. Meanwhile, those who are left need to figure out how to get the same work done with less people. Most of these people can only dream of $200k, let alone $300k.

As for wanting more than 3%, are you aware that the rest of the country is getting 2%?????
Arthur D is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 11:57
  #99 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ballarat
Posts: 53
Arthur D;

Posts like this do my head in.

In other news, JQ management is running around declaring to every media organization that NB Captains make 305k a year for flying 75 hours a month.

If they offered the pilot body that deal, it'd be signed tomorrow. 305 for 75 hours? Man I'm in.
Paddleboat is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 12:07
  #100 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 14
JQ will drag you through the media and internal Comms. Be prepared to experience the ire of the general public and your other work colleagues

So what? I'm still to hear a convincing argument as to why this should hold JQ pilots back from fighting for their future.

Lets not forget the general publics disgust with todays corporate greed. JQ pilots will be forced to once again go backwards in pay and conditions whilst the corporate execs continue to reap the benefits. Given this, it's not hard to see why JQ pilots are pissed off!
2theline is offline  

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