Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 31st Oct 2019, 07:19
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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​​​​​Because Tiger seems content to run it’s business at a loss to ensure market share and ALL of it’s costs are not the true market rate / value that can be sustained long term.​
Sounds like Jetstar.
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Old 31st Oct 2019, 09:17
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely no argument from me, the difference being the Qantas Group is making money.......... where as the Virgin group! And by the way I don't think that pilot costs are the make and break of a profit but I would think QF management would argue that ALL virgin costs are too high and Qantas can't or won't match them. I think it only becomes the 'market rate' when the business is viable or QF is forced to raise Jetstars terms and conditions to retain pilots as they are all leaving for Virgin.
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Old 1st Nov 2019, 03:54
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flava Saver View Post
...this has gone quiet?
What would you expect, given the company are not interested.
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Old 1st Nov 2019, 05:21
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, donít you gentlemen know??? This is not Brexit... now get to it

Last edited by angryrat; 1st Nov 2019 at 05:43.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 04:14
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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The AFAP today applied to the FWC for a ballet in regards to IA this December.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 04:30
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
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Jetstar could face Christmas disruptions over pilot dispute


Budget airline Jetstar could face disruptions over the busy Christmas period after pay negotiations with its pilots broke down.

The Australian Federation of Air Pilots said on Wednesday it had applied to the Fair Work Commission to hold a vote among Jetstar pilots on taking protected industrial action.

The proposed actions range from general work-to-rule (pilots not working outside of their rostered hours) to work stoppages of up to 24 hours, AFAP said. Jetstar is able to object to some forms of action with Fair Work today, before pilots vote on them.

Jetstar and the union are at loggerheads over pay, with the airline saying it has proposed a 3 per cent annual wage rise but that the union wants a deal that would increase "pilot costs" by 15 per cent.

AFAP executive director Simon Lutton said the union was taking the step because its members were disappointed negotiations with Jetstar over a new enterprise agreement had stalled.

ďAs negotiating with the company in good faith has got them nowhere, they have been left with no choice," Mr Lutton said.

A Jetstar spokeswoman said it had been in constructive discussions about the new wage deal since January and remained committed to reaching an agreement, "but not at any cost".

"There are many complex areas to discuss and working through the AFAPís numerous claims and their many modifications takes time," she said.

Mr Lutton said AFAP members, who make up the majority of Jetstar's pilots, were unhappy with salary and conditions, and concerned about how the airline's rostering practices affected pilot fatigue.

Jetstar said captains on its fleet of narrow body jets earned $304,576 on average and first officers earned $184,260 last year, including superannuation and allowances. On larger aircraft which fly international routes, that went up to $323,274 and $234,516.

The wage dispute comes at a time when Jetstar and its owner Qantas are coming under pressure from falling demand, particularly among holidaymakers, who are choosing not to travel amid softening economic conditions.

Jetstar's unit revenue - an industry figure used to measure passenger traffic - fell 2.6 per cent in the first quarter of the year.

More to come
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 05:20
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wheels_down View Post
The AFAP today applied to the FWC for a ballet in regards to IA this December.
Negotiations by interpretive dance?
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 05:33
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher View Post

Negotiations by interpretive dance?
Well, it does follow a well worn tradition from at least 1971:
, an interpretive dance...
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 05:37
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, a December to Remember!
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 06:20
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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What an unwelcome development.
Resplendent in wedded bliss, the region's most highly remunerated airline executive nearly choked on a sausage, at breakfast time.

Options on the table include:
  • Jetstar too in "terminal decline" (not sure how to write the necessary "transformation" options against a wholly owned subsidiary)
  • Have "Stream Lead" Now lead QF IR negotiator Safe intervene? Like a modern Rudolf Hess. (unfortunately his flying is usually at the expense of colleagues, ten bits of silver and all)
  • Call Jetstar pilots "kamikaze" claim they need first class massages and such
  • Ground them and lock them out?
  • Farm out flying to Network?
  • Link new aircraft types to "productivity" improvement?

What to do, what to do.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 06:23
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Those A321s would certainly come in handy at mainline.

Just saying.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 07:19
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Here is an idea. Just pay the damn market rates.

A chart at one end (far) has Qantas, Virgin, Tiger. At the other end is Air NZ, Jetstar NZ, Jetconnect and Virgin Kiwi.

Jetstar sit in the middle with the likes of regional jet operators.

Why are they not down the far end?
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 08:36
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blueskymine View Post
Those A321s would certainly come in handy at mainline.

Just saying.
weíre not stupid enough to believe that the group allocates aircraft solely based on pilot wages, unlike the QF guys did when agreeing to their 787 deal
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 09:06
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post


weíre not stupid enough to believe that the group allocates aircraft solely based on pilot wages, unlike the QF guys did when agreeing to their 787 deal
Which is still superior to the JQ 787 conditions in just about every way. Except perhaps day off protection and blank lines.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 09:33
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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And you guys accepted shithouse conditions all those years ago, you can’t rapidly change it your stuck with shit for the foreseeable future, that’s the way it works.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 09:43
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post
weíre not stupid enough to believe that the group allocates aircraft solely based on pilot wages,
Probably because Jetstar business units get investment in aircraft regardless of making a profit. Must be a nice way to live.

Despite ECAM ACTIONSís stupid comments, I wish all Jetstar pilots the very best of luck with your PIA. Good on you for standing up to the company and fighting for the conditions you deserve.

Last edited by Beer Baron; 13th Nov 2019 at 10:19.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 09:50
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Angle of Attack View Post
And you guys accepted shithouse conditions all those years ago, you canít rapidly change it your stuck with shit for the foreseeable future, thatís the way it works.
Qantas pilots have the benefit of many grandfathered terms and conditions from when qantas was a government owned airline, which is great. The JQ guys and gals are doing their best to try and fight for better T&Cs from a deal that the vast majority of us werenít here to agree to when the airline was established (I myself was in primary school in 2004!).
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 10:41
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post


Qantas pilots have the benefit of many grandfathered terms and conditions from when qantas was a government owned airline, which is great. The JQ guys and gals are doing their best to try and fight for better T&Cs from a deal that the vast majority of us weren’t here to agree to when the airline was established (I myself was in primary school in 2004!).
It is actually a little from column A and a little from column B.
Low Fare Airlines whilst a real alternative (like SWA) actually didn't, despite the lack of grandfathering, government ownership or even protectionism actually push Low Wages.
The low wage phenomena was driven by consulting firms with a spreadsheet approach to running airlines.

They included:
  • $50(or so) million of seed capital
  • Multi user terminals
  • Leased fleet
  • Terms and conditions whereby more of the salary/wage was at risk.
The idea was have a go and see how it works. That there have been scores of start ups and failures in Europe is testament to :

1. The limitation of unit cost control
2. Response of established carriers.

Key in this was the oversupply of pilots, usually self funded such that an "airline" had minimal investment in and as such was low risk strategy.The externality borne by the "applicant" who probably paid for testing and attendance. In the case of Ryanair uniforms too.
Perhaps the saddest irony of the Jetstar model is that instead of complimenting the full service offering, myopic management focused on IR and setting work groups against each other. Convicted criminal former CFO Gregg said precisely that at a Parliamentary enquiry: "Jetstar would add competitive tension to labour unit cost" (paraphrase)

Not content, myopic management driven by spreadsheets saw JQ the answer to everything. Doing so they neglected the Achilles heel of low fare airlines: yield.
Jumping the shark is a Qantas specialty so they took JQ International. They hide it in the accounts but it bleeds cash just like the franchises.
For an airline the size of JQ it exhibits classic overscale tendencies: Too much capacity for the revenue it generates.

Mr Evans has his work cut out for him.

The stellar expansion enjoyed by JQ pilots at the expense of Qantas pilots is well documented. Pilots quickly gained promotions while Qantas languished.
The business is now over scale. That means JQ pilots have a fight on their hands.
As JQ was deployed against Qantas, it is probable Qantas will be deployed against JQ as will Network aviation or others in a conga line of acquisitions.....
If Mr Evans and JQ surrender any ground then the revenue margin, already narrow, may well invert!
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 11:34
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post


Qantas pilots have the benefit of many grandfathered terms and conditions from when qantas was a government owned airline, which is great. The JQ guys and gals are doing their best to try and fight for better T&Cs from a deal that the vast majority of us werenít here to agree to when the airline was established (I myself was in primary school in 2004!).
Pipe down mate. The vast majority of QF pilots wholeheartedly support JQ pilots in this endeavour, but don't try and shit can us for the 787 deal. The baseline had already been set inside "The Group" with the JQ 787 contract which is a little underwhelming!
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 12:12
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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I believe all Qantas line pilots are behind you and most if not all of the short haul pilots wish they could join you. Good luck with it.
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