Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 16th Jul 2019, 06:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 803
A_pilot, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Funnily enough when I was discussing BOC flying with one of our older resource managers (MB) his exact words to me around FRMS and possible new work rules was ‘be careful what you wish for, all our info says that we will be able to fly you more with less rest!’. I await September :-), I rarely get good rest in hotels with cleaners etc and just won’t go to work if I am not rested.
Ollie Onion is online now  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 11:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 25
Does anyone know If this jepp system accounts for fatigue, crew life style and wellbeing? What Iíve seen of the mirroring rosters thatís getting around it purely a financial optimizer for the company. Pairings I have seen are horrible,
Pax 6am to a hotel to operate BOC that night then pax home after arrival to drive home in peak he traffic. Another out of ADL is a 4 day trip all BOC flying, early start late finish for min rest in days off etc.
Ragnor is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 13:02
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Sounds fun, can't wait.
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 14:50
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 634
And all for 15% less $$$ than the fellow Airbus competitor who are usually home each night with next to no BOC.

And they want you to work even harder? Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

wheels_down is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 18:40
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Block 49
Posts: 37
Perhaps more is less

Originally Posted by wheels_down View Post
And all for 15% less $$$ than the fellow Airbus competitor who are usually home each night with next to no BOC.

And they want you to work even harder? Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

From the SMH:
Tigerair ran at an $8 million loss in the first half of this year on an earnings before interest and tax basis, and a $36 million loss in 2018, adding to the Virgin Group's $653 million loss that year.

Perhaps the Tiger EBA may not be the panacea their pilots were looking for?

Weapons Grade is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The GAFA
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Weapons Grade View Post
From the SMH:
Tigerair ran at an $8 million loss in the first half of this year on an earnings before interest and tax basis, and a $36 million loss in 2018, adding to the Virgin Group's $653 million loss that year.

Perhaps the Tiger EBA may not be the panacea their pilots were looking for?
So on that basis, there really shouldnít be any excuse to not get at least equal pay and conditions, if not better? Iím not a JQ pilot, but some of the people there really swallow up the management tripe too easily..
drunk_pilot is online now  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 803
I think the point is, we can't really say that the Tiger deal is the new A320 benchmark in Australia as if the company goes bust in 12 months time and is wound up then what ever the EBA was is irrelevant. I can assure you that is what Jetstar will say in reaction to us saying 'we should get paid more than Tiger'. They will just say, they know how much cost they can associate with the new EBA and they won't go above that regardless of what the Tiger deal is, in their minds it will be 3%.
Ollie Onion is online now  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 04:55
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 569
Issue for Tiger is the leisure market has gone backwards in the last half. First major declines since 2012. We wonít know how bad it is until full year results. QF were fairly vocal in seeing the same trend but can offset it via other revenue streams. Virgin canít. Jetstar Domestic is nothing short of bullet proof it seems.

If this leisure revenue had simply moved downwards from VA and QF to JQ/TT then Tiger should only be getting bigger. If Tiger has gone backwards then Iíd expect consolidation and Virgin to bring in the Economy Basic bucket like JetBlue.
PoppaJo is online now  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 06:57
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Block 49
Posts: 37
Wait, Watch and Absorb

Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Issue for Tiger is the leisure market has gone backwards in the last half. First major declines since 2012. We wonít know how bad it is until full year results. QF were fairly vocal in seeing the same trend but can offset it via other revenue streams. Virgin canít. Jetstar Domestic is nothing short of bullet proof it seems.

If this leisure revenue had simply moved downwards from VA and QF to JQ/TT then Tiger should only be getting bigger. If Tiger has gone backwards then Iíd expect consolidation and Virgin to bring in the Economy Basic bucket like JetBlue.
The heliograph flashing from Village Virgin is that there is to be an announcement by COB Friday regarding the current status and future of Tiger.
The smart money is that Tiger will close, and be absorbed into Virgin, which at last glance, was north of $1.6B loss over the last 6 years. One opines that Virgin will be between nowhere and nowhere as it cannot compete with Qantas group's premium (sic) service, and cannot compete with Qantas group's low cost carrier services.
My tray table is stowed; my reclining seat/bed is now in the takeoff and landing position; and, am awaiting the onset of severe turbulence which is forecast.
Perhaps it is just a rumour, and will amount to nought. Perhaps.
Weapons Grade is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 07:57
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 803
And this wouldn't be the first time that a company has agreed a new employment agreement to keep the workers going until the end which was already planned for. Hopefully it is just rumour but it seems to be the sensible solution given the financial position of Virgin.
Ollie Onion is online now  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 09:01
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 25
One has to wonder where a company is struggling financially got the excess money to pay such a big pay rise for the Tiger crew, also the ATR agreement was passed with a substantial pay rise Iíve heard. Where is VA getting all this money from?!
Ragnor is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 11:20
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Doomagee
Age: 6
Posts: 647
If Tiger goes its nothing to do with pilot wages. Virgin have been talking about merging narrow body pilot EBAís so all pilots can fly all routes with everyone.

Your management has certainly got you QF group guys brainwashed into thinking that itís the pilot conditions or lack thereof that determine the success or failure of the company.

If Tiger does get wound up get ready for a new entrant such as Air Asia into the LCC space and then you
really will have Buckleyís and none in getting a payrise.

The new CEO (a nice change) has a magnifying glass over the financial situation. Certainly Iíd expect to see some big changes coming.

All the best to JQ/QF guys, you work hard and make bucket loads of money for the company year after year I think you deserve better.
Berealgetreal is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Hyperspace
Posts: 65
So let me get this right. The logic is just go for it, bring on a fight because Tiger will be wound up and you should get all you can before there is a new entrant?

Interesting that notions like job security and promotion are ignored to the point where the only consideration is $$. Years ago I remember a certain blue tailed carrier disappearing. One of the many nooses strangling the golden goose was inflated employee agreements, including pilots.

With a Group CEO who grounded the fleet in 2011, a soft economy, low inflation and wage rises running at less than 2% I think its a great idea that Jetstar pilots pick a fight.

Wheres Brian, does anyone know where we can find him?
Arthur D is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:53
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Yawn

So if Tiger is wound up the pilots will be given an even bigger payrise as they join the Virgin Australia payroll. But those naughty Jetstar pilots should accept whatever they are given and be happy.. Iíd say the chances are slim to none. But hey, everyone has their opinion.
Clipster is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:23
  #35 (permalink)  

Evertonian
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Posts: 9,862
The Tiger brand is damaged goods. Their EBA was agreed in order to just keep it flying until VA are ready to act, as Ollie has said. VA will regroup & restart in the LCC market & I reckon that the new entities EBA will be aligned exactly how they want it... just my 2c.
Buster Hyman is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 22:18
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nz
Posts: 312
If Virgin can bite the bullet and forget the sunk costs of the last decade and get back to their roots they might have a clear path ahead. If they keep on competing in a space that is virtually non existent then they’ll keep on losing money. My two cents.
73qanda is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:52
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 383
People seem transfixed on the ďpay riseĒ aspect only and how itís risky in a softening economy. Anything being asked for in this latest round of EBAs is merely a correction (not a pay rise) to the stagnated wage growth forced upon pilots during the last decade or so. Airlines have skimmed the cream off that wage stagnation for a very long time. Talk of company failures and the end of days in aviation is old playbook smoke and mirrors, and pretty boring.
gordonfvckingramsay is online now  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:53
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 634
Virgin cannot go back.

Analysts estimated it would cost $1 Billion to go backwards again.

They can only tweak with what they have. Hard calls will be made.
wheels_down is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 01:00
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: deepest darkest recess of your mind
Posts: 999
Wow. For a thread titled Jetstar EBA, there sure is a lot of interest in Virgin. When was the last time any worker group got their payrise by pointing at the competitor and saying "We deserve that, 'cause that's what they have???" Anybody? Bueller?
porch monkey is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 01:28
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nz
Posts: 312
Virgin cannot go back.

Analysts estimated it would cost $1 Billion to go backwards again.
I estimate it will cost $1.1 Billion to not go back
73qanda is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.