2 More Jetstar A320’s to Network
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Maybe one day Qantas Group pilots will adopt a promotional system which doesn’t imprison experience in one case, whilst protecting inexperience in another. Maybe in adopting such a system, pilots will enjoy the fruits of promotion based on the same criteria enjoyed by every other industry.
and one day pigs will fly.......
when Ansett collapsed, rather than leveraging the vast experience available to it, Qantas was forced by its pilots promotional system to conduct unnecessary training and promote inexperience, both at enormous cost and arguably increasing operational risk.
Qantas pilots have the system they want. Their extreme conservatism will inhibit anything else, and ironically I fear, their very futures.
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Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: ...second left, past the lights.
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Just to correct the ledger - "Your boss saw a market and he created a product"...
No he didn't. He saw J@%k $&*t!
He was only scrambling to cut off another heavily backed LCC launching out of an Avalon base with two B737's (that were in the hangars painted already!)... and he did, by having his media launch of Jetstar the day before Spirit Airlines' planned one! I wonder how he knew about Spirit... just ask the Airports' Manager, who's frequents the QF upper Lounges...
Regardless, there was room for a LCC to move into that segment and it happens to be Jstar. It's just a pity all the QF groups aren't working together against managements' divide-and-conquer style, as those days are well and truely past it's use-by date, in this climate of skills shortage!
Happy Landings
No he didn't. He saw J@%k $&*t!
He was only scrambling to cut off another heavily backed LCC launching out of an Avalon base with two B737's (that were in the hangars painted already!)... and he did, by having his media launch of Jetstar the day before Spirit Airlines' planned one! I wonder how he knew about Spirit... just ask the Airports' Manager, who's frequents the QF upper Lounges...
Regardless, there was room for a LCC to move into that segment and it happens to be Jstar. It's just a pity all the QF groups aren't working together against managements' divide-and-conquer style, as those days are well and truely past it's use-by date, in this climate of skills shortage!
Happy Landings
Maybe one day Qantas Group pilots will adopt a promotional system which doesn’t imprison experience in one case, whilst protecting inexperience in another.
Did Ansett take direct entry captains at the expense of its incumbent First Officers?
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
The argument has been done to death on PPRUNE probably time to move on.
Not at all
When 737 FO’s in QF earn around 260k I don’t think a command is at the top of their priority.
youd expect most wouldn’t mind seniority, when it’s their time, it’s their time.
As for the JQ guys, how’s the 4 sector days going for 75 hours min guarantee?
youd expect most wouldn’t mind seniority, when it’s their time, it’s their time.
As for the JQ guys, how’s the 4 sector days going for 75 hours min guarantee?
Join Date: Jun 2019
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Jetstar undervalue their tech crew which was evident in the last EBA update by the Chief and the Union.
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I certainly don't look to undercut anyone. Mainline could push for a million dollars a year and I'd be happy for them.
What grinds me is the attitude displayed but a select few muppets such as the one above that JQ pilots are somehow responsible for whatever stagnation they suffered at mainline (and of course ignoring the massive advantage they took from the collapse of Ansett) and deserve the subpar pay or high workload we endure. "Enjoy" was the comment made, along with a snide remark about how long till retirement. Insufferable arrogance.
I took the job that was available. The reality is that mainline simply didn't hire anyone for a decade. Had they offered me a job I'd have happily taken it, but the market didn't provide that opportunity. What else am I to do? Refuse an airline job to protect people earning 5 times what I am on in GA and rot there? Its absurd.
Direct your angst at the management that decided to drive growth outside of mainline, not at the drivers who simply grabbed hold of the only thing that was available.
What grinds me is the attitude displayed but a select few muppets such as the one above that JQ pilots are somehow responsible for whatever stagnation they suffered at mainline (and of course ignoring the massive advantage they took from the collapse of Ansett) and deserve the subpar pay or high workload we endure. "Enjoy" was the comment made, along with a snide remark about how long till retirement. Insufferable arrogance.
I took the job that was available. The reality is that mainline simply didn't hire anyone for a decade. Had they offered me a job I'd have happily taken it, but the market didn't provide that opportunity. What else am I to do? Refuse an airline job to protect people earning 5 times what I am on in GA and rot there? Its absurd.
Direct your angst at the management that decided to drive growth outside of mainline, not at the drivers who simply grabbed hold of the only thing that was available.
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260k..yep, Ben might, but as for reality..$195k
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Unfortunately for Australian pilots the IR model is largely adversarial.
It is standard practice to set employees against each other.
Australian employers buoyed by asymmetry, heavily favouring employer leverage, saw flying outsourced, sent to contractors or subsidiaries with gay abandon.
For the Qantas pilots, a decade was lost as "growth" at Jetstar was accompanied by stagnation and demotion.
For the Jetstar pilots, their model is at scale, the market saturated and the business faces (despite accounting opaqueness) a perennial problem of low yield and increasing unit cost.
Thus, IR roll out the next lot of contractors, subsidiary or even imported workers to place further pressure on terms and conditions.
Wash rinse and repeat.
Do engineers self fund their licences?
It is standard practice to set employees against each other.
Australian employers buoyed by asymmetry, heavily favouring employer leverage, saw flying outsourced, sent to contractors or subsidiaries with gay abandon.
For the Qantas pilots, a decade was lost as "growth" at Jetstar was accompanied by stagnation and demotion.
For the Jetstar pilots, their model is at scale, the market saturated and the business faces (despite accounting opaqueness) a perennial problem of low yield and increasing unit cost.
Thus, IR roll out the next lot of contractors, subsidiary or even imported workers to place further pressure on terms and conditions.
Wash rinse and repeat.
Do engineers self fund their licences?
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Wow,
depressing to see Pilots squabbling at each other like school children.
No wonder it’s so easy for IR to pit pilot against pilot and screw both groups simultaneously.
I don’t suspect they need to do a thing really.
The Guys and gals I’ve flown with from JQ in Qantas have been fantastic. Both companies have their faults. Dickheads in both airlines. Majority bloody good people.
My view is that we are all just doing our jobs, putting food on the table, trying to juggle s&$# hours with a family life.Some jobs you get an early promotion at the cost of pay/work/life. Others you take a hit to promotion for a different pay/work/life. Some make that choice. Others don’t get a choice.
The enemy isn’t your fellow pilot but the bean counter/consultant who works 9-5, gets paid more than both of us combined, gets every holiday at home and is tasked to attempt to screw us all.
Your fellow pilot isn’t the enemy. But if your a fool you’ll take the bait I suppose. Can’t fix stupid.
depressing to see Pilots squabbling at each other like school children.
No wonder it’s so easy for IR to pit pilot against pilot and screw both groups simultaneously.
I don’t suspect they need to do a thing really.
The Guys and gals I’ve flown with from JQ in Qantas have been fantastic. Both companies have their faults. Dickheads in both airlines. Majority bloody good people.
My view is that we are all just doing our jobs, putting food on the table, trying to juggle s&$# hours with a family life.Some jobs you get an early promotion at the cost of pay/work/life. Others you take a hit to promotion for a different pay/work/life. Some make that choice. Others don’t get a choice.
The enemy isn’t your fellow pilot but the bean counter/consultant who works 9-5, gets paid more than both of us combined, gets every holiday at home and is tasked to attempt to screw us all.
Your fellow pilot isn’t the enemy. But if your a fool you’ll take the bait I suppose. Can’t fix stupid.
