Qantas Short Haul 2019 EA Negotiations (EA 8)
Something worth considering.
A crew member recently made me aware that the 787 gets full night credits of 33.3% on 2 pilot operations,
and only slightly less at 25% night credits on 3 pilot operations. The original AIPA projections showed a lot of Asia flying like HKG and HND etc. AIPA EA negotiator at the time suggested the 787 would most likely take a lot of A330 Asia flying long term.
Would seem the company may wish to push a lot of back of the clock Asia flying to SH without protections.
Lots of 6 day patterns back of the clock flying.
I had heard rumoured double night sectors on either 738s or the A321XLR if they order them.
With a 4700nm range that’s easily a Tokyo or Bangkok range.
More likely to be thinner routes like India or Indonesia But that might only be initially.
A lot lot more concrete information needs to be provided. Seems yet another EA has all this secret info like the last EA.
Forgive me but I’m more than sceptical. Especially given the last President selling the EA is just by coincidence negotiating on behalf of Qantas.
To back up the need for a professional negotiator at AIPA assisting, Qantas have a large negotiating and legal team at Freehills advising their team.
Pilots can by all means be the main ones driving a deal however they are not expert professionals. Why DIY when you can have professional assistance just as Qantas do.
As Shakespeare wisely said, They doth protest too much methinks. In AIPAs EA and Execs case it seems relevant.
A crew member recently made me aware that the 787 gets full night credits of 33.3% on 2 pilot operations,
and only slightly less at 25% night credits on 3 pilot operations. The original AIPA projections showed a lot of Asia flying like HKG and HND etc. AIPA EA negotiator at the time suggested the 787 would most likely take a lot of A330 Asia flying long term.
Would seem the company may wish to push a lot of back of the clock Asia flying to SH without protections.
Lots of 6 day patterns back of the clock flying.
I had heard rumoured double night sectors on either 738s or the A321XLR if they order them.
With a 4700nm range that’s easily a Tokyo or Bangkok range.
More likely to be thinner routes like India or Indonesia But that might only be initially.
A lot lot more concrete information needs to be provided. Seems yet another EA has all this secret info like the last EA.
Forgive me but I’m more than sceptical. Especially given the last President selling the EA is just by coincidence negotiating on behalf of Qantas.
To back up the need for a professional negotiator at AIPA assisting, Qantas have a large negotiating and legal team at Freehills advising their team.
Pilots can by all means be the main ones driving a deal however they are not expert professionals. Why DIY when you can have professional assistance just as Qantas do.
As Shakespeare wisely said, They doth protest too much methinks. In AIPAs EA and Execs case it seems relevant.
This lifting of SHEA geographic restrictions (if true) is significant.
QF wanted the industrial umpire to intervene on the LH pow wow. Maybe this time it would be in the pilots interest for a determination? Just a thought bubble.
You do not want to muddy the waters when there is an existing SH and LH agreement in place. The 1989 contract (which it still is) clearly defined the flying geographic restrictions. It seems the company wants a LH contract on 1989 SH conditions.
QF wanted the industrial umpire to intervene on the LH pow wow. Maybe this time it would be in the pilots interest for a determination? Just a thought bubble.
You do not want to muddy the waters when there is an existing SH and LH agreement in place. The 1989 contract (which it still is) clearly defined the flying geographic restrictions. It seems the company wants a LH contract on 1989 SH conditions.
Last edited by crosscutter; 18th Jul 2019 at 05:54.
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The Integration award should cover it however back of the clock 6 day patterns to shorter range Asian destinations in SH warrant different protections.
Lack of MGH and cancellation of duties that happens daily is as much of a concern.
Lack of MGH and cancellation of duties that happens daily is as much of a concern.
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caveat emptor.
That sitting opposite the current bunch of 'union negotiators' is the immediate former president of AIPA, now a lead IR negotiator ought suggest that the selection of negotiators, process and outomes are skewed the company way.
That sitting opposite the current bunch of 'union negotiators' is the immediate former president of AIPA, now a lead IR negotiator ought suggest that the selection of negotiators, process and outomes are skewed the company way.
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If union negotiators are presumed to be not skilled enough to be effective, why is having an ex-union negotiator now working for Qantas a problem?
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Because the ex-union negotiator has access to the full QF resources as well as the inside knowledge of how the union negotiates. I think it is time that AIPA employ the skills of a professional negotiator for all EBA's that they are representing. The days of the line pilot negotiator are gone and people who negotiate for a living are required. To do anything else is to give the Company the advantage, game ,set and match.
Arm's length negotiations are the benchmark of professional negotiation.
Last edited by Rated De; 18th Jul 2019 at 12:39.
Does Network, with their 320s, have any geographical restrictions?
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Something the former AIPA President has also been involved in, ensuring cheap pilots from overseas, rewarded handsomely for undermining the very pilots he claimed to represent.
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Been away for a while but it’s not about sneaking off the aircraft every sector, you KNOW when they want to assign a duty because it comes up in unnotified duties in the roster, I’m happy to accept duties signing on and when on an overnight but it should be by ground staff on arrival last sector of a pattern, not ACARS, it will make it too easy to silly willy throw crap on your line in the middle of days off.
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Been away for a while but it’s not about sneaking off the aircraft every sector, you KNOW when they want to assign a duty because it comes up in unnotified duties in the roster, I’m happy to accept duties signing on and when on an overnight but it should be by ground staff on arrival last sector of a pattern, not ACARS, it will make it too easy to silly willy throw crap on your line in the middle of days off.
There are few office staff working 60 hours of duty a "week"
What precisely is the upside for the pilot body to forego any remaining amenity?
Or will Little Napoleon, ever the one trick pony threaten to outsource more?
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If there is ever a time to stand up to this crap now is the time, it will never be better as pilots. Bring on PIA and fair work rulings if they want it, I’ll take it.
If pilots could demonstrate the company has changed behaviour over the life of the SHEA, and the requests were reasonable, some positive change is possible. Eg cancellations, loss of flying due training.
With the expectation the company won’t agree to much, it may be the best way forward. Working to rule right now is probably the most effective strategy...but pilots are too piss weak.
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If you look at the offer I honestly believe PIA and then arbitration will give a better outcome, I’ve worked in Fair Work 20 years ago and also been on the COM in far more militant factory unions 25+ years ago, I know the laws have changed but I know them pretty well, I’m convinced a NO vote is a no brainer, and if they don’t come to the party like the last 2 votes PIA and arbitration has to be better! Keep trying to crew those Network planes buddies!
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Good luck guys. I wouldn't worry about the ex AIPA President sitting across the table. He wasn't in the position long enough to know anything of use and he doesn't have friends inside there now.
FYI LAMEs are at breaking point with our negotiations with the company and are considering PIA. They just want every single thing their way and will not budge, they haven't even made us a crap offer after 9 months of negotiations.
They are struggling to get planes out though due to massive understaffing that they refuse to fix.
FYI LAMEs are at breaking point with our negotiations with the company and are considering PIA. They just want every single thing their way and will not budge, they haven't even made us a crap offer after 9 months of negotiations.
They are struggling to get planes out though due to massive understaffing that they refuse to fix.
Good luck guys. I wouldn't worry about the ex AIPA President sitting across the table. He wasn't in the position long enough to know anything of use and he doesn't have friends inside there now.
FYI LAMEs are at breaking point with our negotiations with the company and are considering PIA. They just want every single thing their way and will not budge, they haven't even made us a crap offer after 9 months of negotiations.
They are struggling to get planes out though due to massive understaffing that they refuse to fix.
FYI LAMEs are at breaking point with our negotiations with the company and are considering PIA. They just want every single thing their way and will not budge, they haven't even made us a crap offer after 9 months of negotiations.
They are struggling to get planes out though due to massive understaffing that they refuse to fix.
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Good luck guys. I wouldn't worry about the ex AIPA President sitting across the table. He wasn't in the position long enough to know anything of use and he doesn't have friends inside there now.
FYI LAMEs are at breaking point with our negotiations with the company and are considering PIA. They just want every single thing their way and will not budge, they haven't even made us a crap offer after 9 months of negotiations.
They are struggling to get planes out though due to massive understaffing that they refuse to fix.
FYI LAMEs are at breaking point with our negotiations with the company and are considering PIA. They just want every single thing their way and will not budge, they haven't even made us a crap offer after 9 months of negotiations.
They are struggling to get planes out though due to massive understaffing that they refuse to fix.