2nd North South Runway at Melbourne Airport
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Where does the wind blow in Melbourne?
Can anyone explain how Melbourne aiport got the orientation of their proposed third runway so wrong?
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...27-p521zc.html
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...27-p521zc.html
Passengers at Melbourne Airport face several years of increasing congestion and delays after its managers decided to put their long-held plan for a third runway on hold, in favour of building it running in another direction.
The airport's chief executive Lyell Strambi said on Thursday that its plan for a new east-west runway, in place since 2013 and due to open in 2023, had been put on hold.
The airport now wants to build a new runway running north to south.
The east-west runway would have to be shut 17 per cent of the time due to wind interference, a new analysis revealed, rather than 5 per cent as previously thought.
“There will be a lot of days of the year when we won’t be able to use [either east-west runway] and we’ll be stuck with the north-south runway, so that in itself is quite problematic,” Mr Strambi said.
“That would say to us north-south looks like a better option," said Mr Strambi, who will now sit down with aviation authorities to "pressure-test" the revised plan.
Melbourne Airport’s master plan predicts it will hit maximum capacity next year, and that it will be plagued by delays if a new runway is not opened by 2023.
Melbourne Airport must now go back to the drawing board and create a new "master development plan" for a north-south runway , which needs to be approved by federal government. It will not open until about 2025.
News of the change of direction has alarmed local residents, who fear rising noise from flights over housing south of Tullamarine.
Frank Rivoli, from the Hume Residents Airport Action Group, says changing the direction of the third runway could "pit communities against communities", and that it would suit Melbourne Airport if residents bickered over which was best.
An east-west runway would generate more noise overhead in suburbs including Gladstone Park and Westmeadows.
The north-south plan would affect residents in neighbourhoods such as Keilor, St Albans and Tottenham.
"We're not here to say it should go east-west or north-south. It impacts local people and residents wherever it goes." He said new runways should be built "elsewhere ... not here where it is going to affect so many".
Mr Rivoli said the state government had not updated noise rules for suburbs surrounding the airport since 2003, and since then aircraft noise had become much worse. "A lot of people own properties who are being badly affected by airport noise, but under [Planning Minister Richard Wynne's] rules that doesn't matter."
Mr Wynne's office declined to comment on the issue.
A new north-south runway will cost about $1.5 billion, compared to $1.1 billion for the east-west option, because it is further away from the terminal and requires more groundwork.
However the airport's Mr Strambi said the an east-west runway would reach maximum capacity sooner than a north-south option because of the wind restrictions and a fourth runway would have to be built sooner than necessary.
Four runways in a “hashtag” formation remain the airport’s long-term plan, with the final runway to be built at some point after 2036.
Mr Strambi said the response from both government and his airlines customers to the construction delay had been "encouraging".
He said he hoped to have a firm decision on which runway to build within three months.
“Definitely delays will build through that period,” Mr Stambi said. “[But] it’s better to take the pain of that at this point in time if that means a better long-term decision.”
The move by Melbourne Airport will also have serious impacts on nearby Essendon Airport.
In Essendon's masterplan, released this year, it said that Melbourne Airport's previous indication it would opt for an east-west runway would force the smaller airport to follow suit.
The airport's chief executive Lyell Strambi said on Thursday that its plan for a new east-west runway, in place since 2013 and due to open in 2023, had been put on hold.
The airport now wants to build a new runway running north to south.
The east-west runway would have to be shut 17 per cent of the time due to wind interference, a new analysis revealed, rather than 5 per cent as previously thought.
“There will be a lot of days of the year when we won’t be able to use [either east-west runway] and we’ll be stuck with the north-south runway, so that in itself is quite problematic,” Mr Strambi said.
“That would say to us north-south looks like a better option," said Mr Strambi, who will now sit down with aviation authorities to "pressure-test" the revised plan.
Melbourne Airport’s master plan predicts it will hit maximum capacity next year, and that it will be plagued by delays if a new runway is not opened by 2023.
Melbourne Airport must now go back to the drawing board and create a new "master development plan" for a north-south runway , which needs to be approved by federal government. It will not open until about 2025.
News of the change of direction has alarmed local residents, who fear rising noise from flights over housing south of Tullamarine.
Frank Rivoli, from the Hume Residents Airport Action Group, says changing the direction of the third runway could "pit communities against communities", and that it would suit Melbourne Airport if residents bickered over which was best.
An east-west runway would generate more noise overhead in suburbs including Gladstone Park and Westmeadows.
The north-south plan would affect residents in neighbourhoods such as Keilor, St Albans and Tottenham.
"We're not here to say it should go east-west or north-south. It impacts local people and residents wherever it goes." He said new runways should be built "elsewhere ... not here where it is going to affect so many".
Mr Rivoli said the state government had not updated noise rules for suburbs surrounding the airport since 2003, and since then aircraft noise had become much worse. "A lot of people own properties who are being badly affected by airport noise, but under [Planning Minister Richard Wynne's] rules that doesn't matter."
Mr Wynne's office declined to comment on the issue.
A new north-south runway will cost about $1.5 billion, compared to $1.1 billion for the east-west option, because it is further away from the terminal and requires more groundwork.
However the airport's Mr Strambi said the an east-west runway would reach maximum capacity sooner than a north-south option because of the wind restrictions and a fourth runway would have to be built sooner than necessary.
Four runways in a “hashtag” formation remain the airport’s long-term plan, with the final runway to be built at some point after 2036.
Mr Strambi said the response from both government and his airlines customers to the construction delay had been "encouraging".
He said he hoped to have a firm decision on which runway to build within three months.
“Definitely delays will build through that period,” Mr Stambi said. “[But] it’s better to take the pain of that at this point in time if that means a better long-term decision.”
The move by Melbourne Airport will also have serious impacts on nearby Essendon Airport.
In Essendon's masterplan, released this year, it said that Melbourne Airport's previous indication it would opt for an east-west runway would force the smaller airport to follow suit.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 28th Jun 2019 at 00:44. Reason: Add quote: this helps PPRuNers know what you're posting about!
It’s an interesting situation because on most days of the year you’ll see QF 94 coming in from LA to land to the north as it flies over the CBD on base. That would be presumably as you can’t land a 380 on the east west runway.
It it feels like parallel north-south runways would be best for most conditions, as Melbourne does get south-westerly sea-breezes pretty much every day in summer. The residents aren’t going to be very happy !
It it feels like parallel north-south runways would be best for most conditions, as Melbourne does get south-westerly sea-breezes pretty much every day in summer. The residents aren’t going to be very happy !
2nd North South Runway at Melbourne Airport
Melbourne Airport is testing public opinion(?) regarding building 2nd North South Runaway as a priority, reversing plans that East West runway was the priority. In a radio interview the reason given was a re-evaluation of new digital wind shear data, which indicates an increase in number of days E/W would be closed because of a narrowing of safety margins.
Oddly they do not seem to support the announcement with online maps and charts of flight paths.
Oddly they do not seem to support the announcement with online maps and charts of flight paths.
Doesn't take digital wind shear data to work out that there are very very few days when the crosswind limits are too great for 16/34 but there are lots when it's too great for 09/27. If it's over 25kts, then its blowing from the north, or the SSW. Something's fishy they didn't work that out years ago.
09R/27L won't alleviate Single Runway Ops weather and subsequent delays. 16R/34L will.
09R/27L won't alleviate Single Runway Ops weather and subsequent delays. 16R/34L will.
Building a parallel 09/27 never did make sense. Given the time it takes Melbourne Airport to complete taxiway works I think the current crop of brand new F/O's into regionals will be retired before another runway at Melbourne is completed.
Judging the general ground and airborne delays I'd say they're already very close to capacity
The new east west runway stunk of the tail wagging the dog. At least the correct decision is going to be made. Shame on those responsible for allowing the east west proposal to get this far.
So many airports have shown how it should be done...Mel are no trailblazers... as soon as community focus groups and politicians get involved the optimal solution gets compromised with self interest.
So many airports have shown how it should be done...Mel are no trailblazers... as soon as community focus groups and politicians get involved the optimal solution gets compromised with self interest.
Last edited by crosscutter; 28th Jun 2019 at 02:11.
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There are really only four flights impacted regularly as above is QF 94, Virgin 777 and the EK/QR 380.
Virgin in summer struggles with the current setup and usually offloads outbound.
Virgin in summer struggles with the current setup and usually offloads outbound.
All this does is give the airport more time to procrastinate and not spend money on anything whilst raking in landing fees and terminal rents etc etc. Whilst all the airlines pay for their inefficiency with higher fuel burns and total time on their airframes. They will still be holding planning committees and community consultations come 2030. Meanwhile projecting 10%+ passenger growth all with zero real capex.
Some significant truths to this one too!
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Even though I bag Qld even though I’m a local, I can’t help but feeling Aviation wise anyway QLD is miles ahead of the pack,
Wellcamp built, ILS in Gold Coast ...done, runway extension Sunny Coast, underway, An actual real parallel runway for BNE....ahead of schedule underway....Maybe I should say what Sco Mo said on election night...”How good is Queensland?”....maybe that’s going too far but seriously it’s looking good in a South east Qld.
Wellcamp built, ILS in Gold Coast ...done, runway extension Sunny Coast, underway, An actual real parallel runway for BNE....ahead of schedule underway....Maybe I should say what Sco Mo said on election night...”How good is Queensland?”....maybe that’s going too far but seriously it’s looking good in a South east Qld.
Firstly Melbourne airport should extend RWY 27 and yes it can be done. That would be a quick fix to allow more heavies to use it. Otherwise any extra runway would be good.
The original plans for YMML allowed for extra runways. Runway 34 has extra fillets at the southern end presumably because someone in the 1960's had the foresight to put them the early to save effort later.
Brisbane also had 2 parallel runways on its master plan. It's only taken 30 years to build it.
The original plans for YMML allowed for extra runways. Runway 34 has extra fillets at the southern end presumably because someone in the 1960's had the foresight to put them the early to save effort later.
Brisbane also had 2 parallel runways on its master plan. It's only taken 30 years to build it.
Always have a laugh when the International widebodies ask for 09.
Why don’t they just add a extra line in the Notam. DO NOT REQ 09 ATC WILL GET UPSET.
Why don’t they just add a extra line in the Notam. DO NOT REQ 09 ATC WILL GET UPSET.
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But wait, there’s more...........the noise abatement lobby is getting fired up and will oppose whatever solution is proposed and demand either no runway, curfew, displaced threshold or all of the above. The Greens will oppose the north-south option because the copse of trees abeam the threshold of 34 is registered and ATC will screw up every option because traffic crossing runways causing conflict, Essendon, ATC work rules etc. etc. and whatever configuration is chosen will NEVER achieve its designed rate of movements.
Meanwhile 5 knot tailwind on 27 will continue to require 40 minutes holding...........
And whatever you do, DONT attend any of the briefings offered by ATC or Melbourne Airports because then you’ll see how decisions are really made.
If you didn’t laugh you’d cry.
Meanwhile 5 knot tailwind on 27 will continue to require 40 minutes holding...........
And whatever you do, DONT attend any of the briefings offered by ATC or Melbourne Airports because then you’ll see how decisions are really made.
If you didn’t laugh you’d cry.
Last edited by George Glass; 28th Jun 2019 at 12:41.
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