Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Tiger EBA approved

Old 15th Jun 2019, 07:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 1,424
Received 203 Likes on 67 Posts
I do hope you are right, but as someone with experience of the Qantas Groups attitude to negotiations I suspect 15-25% rises are as likely as us seeing a huge fleet of Uber air taxis flying around Melbourne next year. Even in the good times Qantas management sticks doggedly to the ‘no more than 3% per year total contract cost’, couple this with their ability this year to site softening pax figure, volatile fuel prices and an uncertain global economic outlook, I think it is tough times ahead for the negotiators.of course a bit of airline wide industrial action may help focus the minds, but as I have said, getting all pilots to join is unlikely, and of course they have many other pilot resources amongst the group to leverage their position. How about revoking the ‘active hold’ status for Mainline of any pilot who partakes in industrial action, using Jetstar NZ pilots to fly some routes during industrial action, farming out work to Network, Eastern etc or indeed returning capacity to Mainline along with offering positions to non-striking pilots. Are we so certain the ‘group’ pilots will stick together for the common good....... I truely hope that something good comes from the negotiation, history would tell us otherwise.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2019, 08:37
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 306
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My concern with the Tiger EBA is the 2.5%. It's only a bit less than the "standard" 3% but over a 20-40 year career it can add up. Hopefully next Tiger EBA it will improve.
clark y is online now  
Old 15th Jun 2019, 09:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,461
Received 290 Likes on 112 Posts
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
I do hope you are right, but as someone with experience of the Qantas Groups attitude to negotiations I suspect 15-25% rises are as likely as us seeing a huge fleet of Uber air taxis flying around Melbourne next year. Even in the good times Qantas management sticks doggedly to the ‘no more than 3% per year total contract cost’, couple this with their ability this year to site softening pax figure, volatile fuel prices and an uncertain global economic outlook, I think it is tough times ahead for the negotiators.of course a bit of airline wide industrial action may help focus the minds, but as I have said, getting all pilots to join is unlikely, and of course they have many other pilot resources amongst the group to leverage their position. How about revoking the ‘active hold’ status for Mainline of any pilot who partakes in industrial action, using Jetstar NZ pilots to fly some routes during industrial action, farming out work to Network, Eastern etc or indeed returning capacity to Mainline along with offering positions to non-striking pilots. Are we so certain the ‘group’ pilots will stick together for the common good....... I truely hope that something good comes from the negotiation, history would tell us otherwise.
Some of what you suggest I believe would be illegal
morno is online now  
Old 15th Jun 2019, 09:20
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 1,424
Received 203 Likes on 67 Posts
It’s never stopped them before.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2019, 10:19
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 294 Likes on 123 Posts
The market has finally shifted and probably the largest change seen in the low cost space. 3% isn’t going to cut it. Tiger has set the new going rate.

Jetstar has always paid more than Tiger. Getting a deal over the line that is 10-15% less than Tiger is going to upset a lot of people. It will create a very fractured pilot body.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 01:46
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As a JQ pilot I would be happy if they rolled the high line allowance into base pay (company hasn’t figured out how the use the available days anyway) and give the company more standby coverage for an increase in base pay (which the company would go for as it would reduce their WDO bill).

This would hopefully have NB capt 220K base plus 3% increases per annum for the life of the agreement.
ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 02:44
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Lagrangian point 2
Posts: 282
Received 33 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
As a JQ pilot I would be happy if they rolled the high line allowance into base pay (company hasn’t figured out how the use the available days anyway) and give the company more standby coverage for an increase in base pay (which the company would go for as it would reduce their WDO bill).

This would hopefully have NB capt 220K base plus 3% increases per annum for the life of the agreement.

Would you still be doing 75 hours per month to their 60 for that figure? That’s still a pretty huge discrepancy.
ExtraShot is online now  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 03:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
65 hrs and 220K would be fairly palatable fir most of the pilot group I think.

There will be many who say this is not enough, but they only need 51% yes vote after all.
ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 09:49
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: au
Posts: 48
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Would be better than QF S/Haul rate of 195,756 (Year 1 Captain, but 18 years in the company) for 58 hours
Daylight Robbery is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 10:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nth of tas
Posts: 49
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Daylight Robbery
Would be better than QF S/Haul rate of 195,756 (Year 1 Captain, but 18 years in the company) for 58 hours
I love how poster’s just write what they want to suit their argument.

That’s great, why don’t you try using Year 4 figures for a start.

Even with Jetstar on a hypothetical 220k + high line + DTA + 65 threshold, a Jetstar Pilot would only be ahead until a Year 4 QF S/haul pilot did five hours overtime. Then every hour after that QF is ahead; and gaining substantially.

Remembering this would be 2019 figures for JQ vs 2017 for QF. QF’s about to be new EBA will see them even further ahead and that’s with Jetstar pilots more efficient in almost every aspect.


shortshortz is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: au
Posts: 48
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was pointing out the hourly rate at 220k for 65 hours would be higher than the QF Year 1 737 rate. That is a fact.

QF gets a DTA, but I assume JQ would keep theirs, too
Daylight Robbery is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:58
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nth of tas
Posts: 49
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Daylight Robbery
I was pointing out the hourly rate at 220k for 65 hours would be higher than the QF Year 1 737 rate. That is a fact.

QF gets a DTA, but I assume JQ would keep theirs, too
It depends if the hourly overtime rate increases at Jetstar, it’s significantly lower than QF.
You also need to add two lots of 3% to your figures to bring QF up to 2019 (latest EBA negotiations reflect this)
shortshortz is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2019, 22:25
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dunnunda
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 1 Post
Everyone seems to think that PIA will be pickets and lockouts.

Fortnightly stop work meetings will get the point across.
Bula is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 01:14
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 1,424
Received 203 Likes on 67 Posts
It will be, the Qantas pilots were locked out for wearing ‘red ties’ and making ‘PA’s’. Stop work meetings will certainly illicit a response and also rely a very high participation amongst the crew, it will get nasty. I was part of a large airline when the pilots filed for industrial action and we all promptly got letters from the company requiring that we indicated if we intended to take part so that they could arrange the with holding of pay for the potential lock out period. Funnily enough quite a few union members told the union that they wouldn’t be going on strike and were dismissed from the union.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 01:39
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dunnunda
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 1 Post
The way I read it is you can’t be locked out for a stop work meeting.

The company can’t pay us, and we can’t accept payment for the period of the meetings, as long as it’s less than 4 hours.

It would be interesting to get clarification on this should it come to it. I maintain a measured amount of optimism it won’t.
Bula is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 01:51
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 281
Received 110 Likes on 34 Posts
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
As a JQ pilot I would be happy if they rolled the high line allowance into base pay (company hasn’t figured out how the use the available days anyway) and give the company more standby coverage for an increase in base pay (which the company would go for as it would reduce their WDO bill).

This would hopefully have NB capt 220K base plus 3% increases per annum for the life of the agreement.
Why? If they don't move the efa threshold then you're still on less than a tiger captain. Any agreement that doesn't see jq ahead simply makes no sense to me given the increased productivity.
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 03:05
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat
Why? If they don't move the efa threshold then you're still on less than a tiger captain. Any agreement that doesn't see jq ahead simply makes no sense to me given the increased productivity.
I’m just being realistic.

We all know how it will go. The company will offer us roughly the same agreement plus 3% which will be voted down, then an agreement which won’t be great but will get enough of the pilot group to vote yes for it to get across the line.

Those that think a bit of PIA is going to make the company roll over and give us a 20% pay rise are kidding themselves.
ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 03:23
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dunda
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When was the last time one Qantas Group EBA was markedly improved while the rest got standard 3% pay and a few job specific concerns addressed? Genuinely curious.

Tiger has a whopping 2 EBAs and the Virgin Group in general seems to be much less adversarial between work groups.

Pilots striking and the company acquiescing to 15% -justifiable or not- seems fanciful when with 6 months you’ll have a company wide shut down...again.
patty50 is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 04:00
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Your missing the point. The point here is the market’s going rate for a LCC Pilot in this country has shifted. You have been underpaid and the Tiger pilot body has fixed that.

This is also happening in retail. Woolworths/Wesfarmers are in the process of new Agreements for all its businesses. They are all 10-15% increases over previous awards. It’s the largest shift in the sector ever seen. Woolworths now has a multi hundred million dollar wage increase to absorb.

Fly for Jetstar and work 10% harder, fly 25% more people and get paid 15% less than your competitor who isn’t profitable and is operated more as a ultra low cost carrier.
wheels_down is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2019, 04:28
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nth of tas
Posts: 49
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE


I’m just being realistic.

We all know how it will go. The company will offer us roughly the same agreement plus 3% which will be voted down, then an agreement which won’t be great but will get enough of the pilot group to vote yes for it to get across the line.

Those that think a bit of PIA is going to make the company roll over and give us a 20% pay rise are kidding themselves.
The company can’t just offer 3% They need much more flexibility and stand by coverage to cater for what will now be a domestic crew flying long (med) haul as well as 1-4 day trips becoming the norm with the Jeppesen Optimizer, and also more stand by coverage to limit expensive WDOs.

The current coverage won’t cut it and so it’ll be in the interest of Jetstar to get this EBA over the line and to do that it’ll need to be competitive. Otherwise they’ll find a rolling NO vote and box themselves into a corner with NEOs fast approaching and a current inflexible EBA for intl ops.
shortshortz is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.