Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

RUSSIAN MOSCOW ACCIDENT

Old 22nd May 2019, 23:17
  #21 (permalink)  
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From todays printed media news, QF cabin staff moved a gent who was 'well nourished' to use an expression, from an emergency seat row saying that he took up the space of one and half seats and had to use a seat belt extender. Said gent got upset and said things to and about QF and said staff.
All this comes on my earlier thread of 7 May following the Moscow crash in which I noted issues with cabin carry-on bags and the wrong allocation of the emergency exit row to people who were not 'fit and able people' to be useful in an emergency exit.
Could it be that airline(s) are taking note on at least the emergency row allocation that I raised in my 7 May thread?
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Old 23rd May 2019, 00:28
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Originally Posted by runway16 View Post
From todays printed media news, QF cabin staff moved a gent who was 'well nourished' to use an expression, from an emergency seat row saying that he took up the space of one and half seats and had to use a seat belt extender. Said gent got upset and said things to and about QF and said staff.
All this comes on my earlier thread of 7 May following the Moscow crash in which I noted issues with cabin carry-on bags and the wrong allocation of the emergency exit row to people who were not 'fit and able people' to be useful in an emergency exit.
Could it be that airline(s) are taking note on at least the emergency row allocation that I raised in my 7 May thread?
Probabky not. They’re just doing their job.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 00:46
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Company and maybe CASA requirement means seat belt extensions can not be used at emergency exit rows.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 10:12
  #24 (permalink)  
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There was a brief mention on the TV News this evening of the incident referred to by runway16. Some very brief footage was shown of the complainant.

Reaction in the Pinky Household was 'Well done Qantas'

Sympathy level for complainant; Nil.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 10:13
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I wear a shirt with a buttoned top pocket on international flights - for my passport. The rest of my baggage can burn in an emergency evacuation.

If we were really serious about evacuation:

- no duty free shopping.

- no flip flops or high heeled shoes.

- obese and frail people away from exits.

QF did the right thing by moving that obese man mountain from the exit row - he would have jammed the emergency exit like a cork in a bottle.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 11:34
  #26 (permalink)  
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Just looked at the guys picture. Well done QF!!
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Old 23rd May 2019, 16:29
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How do airlines apply RSA rules to those seated in an exit row? Would the RSA rules be different to those seated elsewhere?
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Old 23rd May 2019, 16:32
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I'm surprised that the safety briefing isn't re-done for the approach and landing. I recall Air Canada does but for other airlines? And in preparation for an emergency landing are passengers told to remove shoes?
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Old 24th May 2019, 00:32
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The grubby media sure do love a story like this! They play on the sympathy card a LOT! The guy was obviously unsuitable to be located in an emerg exit row but how did he get there in the first place? The trolley dollies are meant to be checking every boarding pass upon entering the cabin, exit rows would be well known so these people should never make it to their exit row seats in the first place! The Airlines should perhaps make it policy that anyone booking online for their seat that selects an exit row (and pays for it) has to check in at the counter beforehand to prove their suitability?
Flying is so common these days that there would be very few rules not known by very few people.
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Old 24th May 2019, 00:51
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Originally Posted by sunnySA View Post
How do airlines apply RSA rules to those seated in an exit row? Would the RSA rules be different to those seated elsewhere?
Fair question. I think the airlines might say that since it’s illegal for anyone to be intoxicated on board an aircraft, nobody will be intoxicated and therefore there’s no problem.
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Old 24th May 2019, 02:46
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Of course it is, or at least clearly more than a little tongue-in-cheek. But it's no more ridiculous that all this judgemental twattery about murder charges against people for what they did when under extreme stress in the middle of a developing disaster.

Focus on WHY people have so much carry-on stuff in the first place. That comes down to two things - the minor one is the delays in baggage recovery in a typical airport (I've spent over an hour standing in baggage reclaim many times), but the major one is the way airlines have decided that a ticket only entitles the passenger to travel with the clothes they stand in (and not too many of those). Everything else attracts punitive charges because they claim they can sell that cargo space, although interestingly the rate they want to charge for hold baggage is considerably more than the rate they charge for it as freight. I've always assumed this is because the freight rates are a competitive ,market while passenger baggage is a captive audience. So those who are naturally inclined to fraud and extortion (ie most of the airlines) cannot resist the opportunity to steal ever more money from their customers.

So if you're looking for someone who needs to be punished, or charged with conspiracy to murder [tongue in cheek], start with the airlines. The passengers come a long way down any list of blame-worthy people here.

PDR
Being in a burning building is stressful too but I bet you'll find if someone does anything to impede evacuation... also in a commercial premises, they are in the frame for manslaughter. There is no reason why this scenario should be any different. It's called culpability. If they want to use stress as a defense, fine, but if the prospect is there and it stops one person from doing this and a life is saved, then it's worth it. Car accidents are stressful too... people are sometimes in shock, but if you seriously injure someone then drive off to get a quote to get your car repaired and leave the injured person to die then you go for a row of sh-t houses. No different in an aircraft cabin.
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Old 24th May 2019, 02:55
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
I don't know how you got that from what I wrote, but for clarification - this thread has split into two elements. On the one hand we have people criticising the passengers who took their bags with them when they left, and on the other hand we have people criticising passengers simply for having so much carry-on baggage (or indeed ANY carry-on baggage in some cases) at all, and hpow this creates the first problem.

Comments about the airlines' resposiboility are in response to the second question. People have carry-on baggage because the airlines explicitly encourage them to do so and discourage them from checking baggage into the hold. If you have a problem with that aspect then take it up with the airlines, because it's nothing to do with the passengers.

My view on passengers taking their carry-on with them is simply that most passengers are probably not capable of rational thought in such an emergency. I've been involved in one "emergency evacuation" that was pretty mild, in an old 747 classic that had a smoke-in-the-cabin even when one of the engines was started (I gather there was a minor oil puddle after mainteance on one engine). I was at the back in the smoking area (gives an idea how long ago this was!) and we stood in the isle seemingly for ages before we finally moved to the exit. I would have had enough time to get my carry-on bag, take valuables from it, put it back and probably make myself a coffee during that wait.

But I have been trapped in a burning building - my bedroom in my parents' home, to be precise (in 1982 - a few weeks before my 21st birthday). I awoke at around 2AM to find the house full of smoke and loud crackling from downstairs. I shouted and made sure I got an answer from all the other family members, and then I went to the phone extension in the room and spent several minutes trying to call the fire brigade. This was futile because I didn't even get a dial tone, but I still continued. By this stage the smoke was pretty choking and the heat was getting intense. Then I heard people shouting outside and realised that I really should be thinking more about joining them, so I picked up a chair and spend over a minute failing to smash the (safety glass) secondary double glazing on the window, culminating in the chair bouncing off the window hand smacking me hard in the head. That stopped me, and made me think (probably for the first time since waking up) and FINALLY it occured to me to just grab the screwdriver from my work bench, prise the clips of the double galing panel and remove the pane of glass so that I could open the window behind it and jump out. That delay gave me second-degree burns (which I still have some scars from), and it was over a year before I could sleep more than 10 mins at a stretch. So I KNOW (not a theory - a personal observation) that in these crisis situations people do not think or behave rationally, even when it's bleedin' obvious and someone is shouting at them. That's just the nature of the human condition when suffering adrenaline overdoses.

If you haven't been there then you're not in a position to stand in judgement over others. I won't ever look to jail people for being human. That would be stupid.
PDR
Sorry for your experience in the house, that would be a terrible situation and while you make some good points, how many wings were attached to the house and how many tonnes of fuel was contained in them. I'm not being flippant, but an aeroplane is not a house, it is a peculiarly shaped object with tonnes of fuel that makes it virtually a potential bomb. I'm not satisfied that the stopping to get cabin baggage isn't a product of the selfishness of the situation. You were trying to contact the Fire Brigade, then you were trying to open the window... these people were stopping to collect personal belongings because they thought that was more important than the people's lives behind them.
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Old 24th May 2019, 06:14
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In the 90s I was working in Riyan International Airport in Yemen. A Yemenia DHC-7 crew saw me at the aircraft I was looking after and asked me to inflate a partially deflated tyre as they were going back to Aden.
I did that quick job and was taken to the pax steps and given a cold bottle of water (40C on the tarmac). What I saw shocked me to the core; the emergency exit was packed to the roof with excess baggage. The only exit would have been the cabin door, but the baggage would have blocked that as well or the window exits at row 10 or thereabouts as it is many years since I worked on the dash sevens.
A week or so before a Yemenia B737 taxied to the end of the apron and shut down and the crew immediately vacated out the cockpit windows on the ropes with the cabin crew not far behind leaving the passengers on board. I was told there was a bomb scare on board, Bit like the Concordia captain who fell into a lifeboat.An hour later the pax were disembarked.
I saw similar on a flight I was on with Libyan Arab Airlines B727 from Tripoli to Zurich where the bags which would not fit into the lockers were piled in one exit. I was relieved to get safely to Zurich.
Travelling in Australia I have seen many unsuitable people in exit rows.
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Old 24th May 2019, 09:05
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I wear a shirt with a buttoned top pocket
Sunfish, whenever I have imagined you (when reading your posts), I have never, ever, had ANY doubt, that that would be what you were wearing...
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Old 27th May 2019, 16:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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QF have been tough on exit rows for years.

As a "trolley dolly" with them, yes exit rows are known but you're mainly checking for fliggt number date and destination on a boarding pass. That's all you usually get to see before most pax yank the card back... ideally yes check for rows and direct but they can slip by. That's why the exit row briefs exist.

Nothing said the crew only noticed him after he was seated. They could well have spotted him as he was putting bags away. Usually on a 737 it's the L2A who manages the ow exit rows (it was back then, amyway). And if the aisle is full it can take some time to get to row 12 and 13/13 And 14 to brief (iirc for the 738)

As for people

most passengers are probably not capable of rational thought in such an emergency
neither are most mums who shake their babies or leave them.in cars by mistake or people who cause traffic accidents generally dontvmean to but that doesn't mean due legal process goes by the wayside...

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Old 28th May 2019, 02:52
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Originally Posted by givemewings View Post

As a "trolley dolly" with them, yes exit rows are known but you're mainly checking for fliggt number date and destination on a boarding pass. That's all you usually get to see before most pax yank the card back... ideally yes check for rows and direct but they can slip by. That's why the exit row briefs exist.
At many airports in the USA, when they scan your boarding pass at the gate to board the plane, an alert goes off if you've been assigned a seat in the exit row. This is so the gate agent can assess whether the person assigned an exit row seat is a suitable 'able-bodied person' (or 'ABP' as they call them there). Perhaps Australia should do the same if they don't already have this technology? It would be very easy to program in to the boarding pass scanner software, I'd imagine.
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Old 28th May 2019, 04:37
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I pax fairly often on Jetstar, and that’s exactly what happens when you scan at the gate. The alert goes off and you are then questioned on your suitability for exit row.
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Old 29th May 2019, 06:00
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That is terrible
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Old 29th May 2019, 11:36
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Originally Posted by phone View Post
That is terrible
Why?

I think it is very satisfactory.
In fact I think operational staff should have priority for the overwing exits on safety grounds.
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