Virgin Australia. Must have been one helluva Strategy meeting!!!!
Can we just point out here, that prior to the f**king 737 fleet changeover debacle at Tiger, they did actually make a profit one year. More per airframe than Virgin did.
Then the rot and stupid decisions set in.....
Then the rot and stupid decisions set in.....
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
originally the fools at the time said we'll train all 200 pilots for a B737 operation in 18 mths, $42k bond 3 years, since then Tigers has been a clusterf**k!
Couldn’t have said it better. Was going well as a stand alone identity. Then the fleet changeover, maintenance changeover, catering change the list goes on. Now I wonder how they manage to function from day to day. So much potential.
Poppa Jo, not sure if the LAX operation is “bleeding” as you describe it.
in fact my information says the 777 is making a profit, which given the loads and freight is not surprising
in fact my information says the 777 is making a profit, which given the loads and freight is not surprising
Just a few to start;
Existing Tiger crews were never bonded either. That was part of the agreement between the pilots and management.
morno
- Increased crew training requirements
- At the start of it, they had a lot of crew sitting around for many months, doing absolutely nothing (still do. I know of some pilots who went for a nice paid holiday to Florida to do their type rating at the start of it all, and haven't even flown the thing yet!)
- Increase in management positions (you've got a position duplicated twice in a few cases, one for Airbus and one for Boeing)
- Decrease in aircraft utilisation, but many of the overheads are still there (leases, maintenance, etc.)
Existing Tiger crews were never bonded either. That was part of the agreement between the pilots and management.
morno
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Depreciation is the biggest killer. Fleet transition charges 20million last FY and similar figure this year.
Virgin owns the 737s so not sure how that works as the rental expense is dropping but how they are being charged for them is anyone’s guess. Nothing on the financials in regards to Tiger owning them.
As every half passes, depreciation is increasing, engineering increasing, fuel bill increasing wage bill increasing and margin is continuing to go backwards.
Margin was increasing right up until they sent the 737 across. They had the right mix about 3/4 years ago with a sole Airbus fleet with Fuel rising but revenue/yield/margin climbing which covered the fuel problems. Then some idiot floated the 737 idea.
Virgin owns the 737s so not sure how that works as the rental expense is dropping but how they are being charged for them is anyone’s guess. Nothing on the financials in regards to Tiger owning them.
As every half passes, depreciation is increasing, engineering increasing, fuel bill increasing wage bill increasing and margin is continuing to go backwards.
Margin was increasing right up until they sent the 737 across. They had the right mix about 3/4 years ago with a sole Airbus fleet with Fuel rising but revenue/yield/margin climbing which covered the fuel problems. Then some idiot floated the 737 idea.
Last edited by wheels_down; 19th May 2019 at 11:18.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ridiculous how many mangers there are. Managers for mangagers which costs a fortune and above all else filters out responsibility.
And if you’re a **** manager we will promote you and give you two more managers.
And if you’re a **** manager we will promote you and give you two more managers.
Personally, I think there are a couple of issues.
I am not sure about the “too many managers” mantra. There are far fewer managers in virgin than in comparable airlines but I am not convinced they are in the right places. At the end of the day someone has to do all the stuff to support the troops actually making th aeroplanes move. Not enough people in the appropriate roles means things that need to change don’t, things that need responses back to crews don’t get responded to, and the people at the coal face feel like they have no support. The other thing to remember is the “managers” are people too, not some mystical being that is immune to the same pressures, issues and stressors as the rest of the workforce is. Training managers or more appropriately people who hold managerial roles would be a great start.
And more importantly the business needs leaders not managers. I don’t mean titles, I mean people who can actually lead, inspire and motivate their people. Those sorts of people in those roles are a bit thin on the ground.
I am not sure about the “too many managers” mantra. There are far fewer managers in virgin than in comparable airlines but I am not convinced they are in the right places. At the end of the day someone has to do all the stuff to support the troops actually making th aeroplanes move. Not enough people in the appropriate roles means things that need to change don’t, things that need responses back to crews don’t get responded to, and the people at the coal face feel like they have no support. The other thing to remember is the “managers” are people too, not some mystical being that is immune to the same pressures, issues and stressors as the rest of the workforce is. Training managers or more appropriately people who hold managerial roles would be a great start.
And more importantly the business needs leaders not managers. I don’t mean titles, I mean people who can actually lead, inspire and motivate their people. Those sorts of people in those roles are a bit thin on the ground.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a few to start;
Existing Tiger crews were never bonded either. That was part of the agreement between the pilots and management.
- Increased crew training requirements
- At the start of it, they had a lot of crew sitting around for many months, doing absolutely nothing (still do. I know of some pilots who went for a nice paid holiday to Florida to do their type rating at the start of it all, and haven't even flown the thing yet!)
- Increase in management positions (you've got a position duplicated twice in a few cases, one for Airbus and one for Boeing)
- Decrease in aircraft utilisation, but many of the overheads are still there (leases, maintenance, etc.)
Existing Tiger crews were never bonded either. That was part of the agreement between the pilots and management.
Depreciation is the biggest killer. Fleet transition charges 20million last FY and similar figure this year.
Virgin owns the 737s so not sure how that works as the rental expense is dropping but how they are being charged for them is anyone’s guess. Nothing on the financials in regards to Tiger owning them.
As every half passes, depreciation is increasing, engineering increasing, fuel bill increasing wage bill increasing and margin is continuing to go backwards.
Margin was increasing right up until they sent the 737 across. They had the right mix about 3/4 years ago with a sole Airbus fleet with Fuel rising but revenue/yield/margin climbing which covered the fuel problems. Then some idiot floated the 737 idea.
Virgin owns the 737s so not sure how that works as the rental expense is dropping but how they are being charged for them is anyone’s guess. Nothing on the financials in regards to Tiger owning them.
As every half passes, depreciation is increasing, engineering increasing, fuel bill increasing wage bill increasing and margin is continuing to go backwards.
Margin was increasing right up until they sent the 737 across. They had the right mix about 3/4 years ago with a sole Airbus fleet with Fuel rising but revenue/yield/margin climbing which covered the fuel problems. Then some idiot floated the 737 idea.
There will always be an increase in training expense. This is short-lived and will not impact on future profitability. I doubt there are any crew sitting around doing nothing. A few additional heads in the business will not impact profitability. I suspect the airline is already extremely lean. Do you have evidence of the reduced utilisation? What is the current aircraft utilisation for the A320 and 737 fleet?
Depreciation is a non-cash expense. It has no impact on cash-flow. It is irrelevant to airline profitability. Virgin does not own all of their 737's. I will assume the ones going to Tigerair are owned and the purpose of accelerating the depreciation on these aircraft is to clear the books for Virgin and Tigerair of this expense. Rental expense decline would reflect the removal of A320's from the fleet as I assume these are all leased. In FY18 Tigerair increase rASK, yield and RPK's on the back of ASK reductions (two aircraft). They're all positive movements, not negative. cASK increases are likely a result of uncontrollables e.g. fuel expense. Other cASK increases would directly link to activity. Tigerair's cASK would be the lowest out of all airlines.
Depreciation is a non-cash expense. It has no impact on cash-flow. It is irrelevant to airline profitability. Virgin does not own all of their 737's. I will assume the ones going to Tigerair are owned and the purpose of accelerating the depreciation on these aircraft is to clear the books for Virgin and Tigerair of this expense. Rental expense decline would reflect the removal of A320's from the fleet as I assume these are all leased. In FY18 Tigerair increase rASK, yield and RPK's on the back of ASK reductions (two aircraft). They're all positive movements, not negative. cASK increases are likely a result of uncontrollables e.g. fuel expense. Other cASK increases would directly link to activity. Tigerair's cASK would be the lowest out of all airlines.
I don’t have figures to back my reduced utilisation claim up so take that how you want. All I can go off is what I’ve been told by those there, that A320 flying is down, 737 flying up. But I don’t imagine the leases are any cheaper whether they fly or not. Only a couple have left the fleet last time I checked.
Evertonian
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
T-Vasis, keep in mind this was all supposed to have been completed mid last year. And they’re not even half way into it!
I don’t have figures to back my reduced utilisation claim up so take that how you want. All I can go off is what I’ve been told by those there, that A320 flying is down, 737 flying up. But I don’t imagine the leases are any cheaper whether they fly or not. Only a couple have left the fleet last time I checked.
Without the data to support aircraft utilisation it becomes a moot point. I prefer fact, so I will discount this until it can be substantiated. Someone could look at the schedule and make that determination. I beleive the fleet would be highy utilised.
More like Alliance livery.
Over in the engine room it’s 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.
The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isn’t where you’ll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.
Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.
Over in the engine room it’s 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.
The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isn’t where you’ll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.
Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.
Last edited by Berealgetreal; 20th May 2019 at 10:00.
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Berealgetreal;10475465]More like Alliance livery.
Virgin Australia takes axe to key Qld route
Robyn Ironside
May 22, 2019
Virgin Australia has wasted no time cutting back capacity, announcing Alliance Airlines will takeover two return services a week between Brisbane and Cairns.
Currently operated by Virgin Australia’s Boeing 737-800 aircraft with the capacity to seat 176 passengers including eight in business class, Alliance will use its Fokker 100s on the services, seating 100 people.
A statement from Virgin Australia said the airline remained “committed to this area of our network”.
“We will continue to provide a strong schedule proposition on this route,” the statement said.
The Alliance services will operate on Thursdays and Fridays.
A trading update released by Virgin Australia last week showed the airline was again headed for another annual loss, as a result of weaker demand, and fuel and foreign exchange headwinds. Group CEO Paul Scurrah said capacity would continue to be reviewed, with the airline already reducing the number of seats in the market by 1.5 per cent.
“There’s going to be a very, very tight look at where we’re flying and how those routes are performing,” Mr Scurrah told The Australian last week.
Data compiled by the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics showed passengers travelling between Brisbane and Cairns on all airlines, had fallen 6.6 per cent in March.
In March 2018, 106,700 passengers travelled between the two ports compared to 99,600 in March this year.
Other routes that could be under review by Virgin Australia include Brisbane-Darwin, with passengers falling 12.5 per cent in March across all airlines; and Brisbane-Hamilton Island with numbers down 8.2 per cent.
Alliance operates a number of other services for Virgin Australia including between Port Moresby and Brisbane.
Virgin Australia takes axe to key Qld route
Robyn Ironside
May 22, 2019
Virgin Australia has wasted no time cutting back capacity, announcing Alliance Airlines will takeover two return services a week between Brisbane and Cairns.
Currently operated by Virgin Australia’s Boeing 737-800 aircraft with the capacity to seat 176 passengers including eight in business class, Alliance will use its Fokker 100s on the services, seating 100 people.
A statement from Virgin Australia said the airline remained “committed to this area of our network”.
“We will continue to provide a strong schedule proposition on this route,” the statement said.
The Alliance services will operate on Thursdays and Fridays.
A trading update released by Virgin Australia last week showed the airline was again headed for another annual loss, as a result of weaker demand, and fuel and foreign exchange headwinds. Group CEO Paul Scurrah said capacity would continue to be reviewed, with the airline already reducing the number of seats in the market by 1.5 per cent.
“There’s going to be a very, very tight look at where we’re flying and how those routes are performing,” Mr Scurrah told The Australian last week.
Data compiled by the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics showed passengers travelling between Brisbane and Cairns on all airlines, had fallen 6.6 per cent in March.
In March 2018, 106,700 passengers travelled between the two ports compared to 99,600 in March this year.
Other routes that could be under review by Virgin Australia include Brisbane-Darwin, with passengers falling 12.5 per cent in March across all airlines; and Brisbane-Hamilton Island with numbers down 8.2 per cent.
Alliance operates a number of other services for Virgin Australia including between Port Moresby and Brisbane.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Perth
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Currently operated by Virgin Australia’s Boeing 737-800 aircraft with the capacity to seat 176 passengers including eight in business class, Alliance will use its Fokker 100s on the services, seating 100 people.
That about sums up VA... the WORST of the crop are the ones who get promoted. Can't fathom how that happens without a deliberate effort to say "OK, who's the worst candidate and how do we justify giving them the job"... there's no other explanation. The whole administration of this airline has been a complete joke since the messiah arrived from the mail room.
More like Alliance livery.
Over in the engine room it’s 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.
The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isn’t where you’ll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.
Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.
Over in the engine room it’s 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.
The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isn’t where you’ll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.
Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.
