Glen Buckley and Australian small business -V- CASA
It seems that any time a general aviation organisation gets to a size, or reaches a certain level of competence or public profile, CASA decides its a threat and kills it.
There is nothing worse for a manager and I guess regulator, to lose control of the agenda because your underlings seem smarter or more capable or more successful than you.
APTA would, I suspect, know more about running a flight school under the new part ??? regime than any individual at CASA, having lived through the transition process. I suspect that that FACT was seen as a threat by CASA management. Similarly Angel Flight (public profile) and perhaps schutts, civil flying school, polair (?) and others even like the humble folk who want to band together for a milk run. If you are seen as a threat you’re gone.
Readers might like to suggest their own examples.
Assuming what i’ve suggested is true, GA businesses might like to consider donating against the day that CASA decides it doesn’t like you any more.
There is nothing worse for a manager and I guess regulator, to lose control of the agenda because your underlings seem smarter or more capable or more successful than you.
APTA would, I suspect, know more about running a flight school under the new part ??? regime than any individual at CASA, having lived through the transition process. I suspect that that FACT was seen as a threat by CASA management. Similarly Angel Flight (public profile) and perhaps schutts, civil flying school, polair (?) and others even like the humble folk who want to band together for a milk run. If you are seen as a threat you’re gone.
Readers might like to suggest their own examples.
Assuming what i’ve suggested is true, GA businesses might like to consider donating against the day that CASA decides it doesn’t like you any more.
It seems that any time a general aviation organisation gets to a size, or reaches a certain level of competence or public profile, CASA decides its a threat and kills it.
There is nothing worse for a manager and I guess regulator, to lose control of the agenda because your underlings seem smarter or more capable or more successful than you.
APTA would, I suspect, know more about running a flight school under the new part ??? regime than any individual at CASA, having lived through the transition process. I suspect that that FACT was seen as a threat by CASA management. Similarly Angel Flight (public profile) and perhaps schutts, civil flying school, polair (?) and others even like the humble folk who want to band together for a milk run. If you are seen as a threat you’re gone.
Readers might like to suggest their own examples.
Assuming what i’ve suggested is true, GA businesses might like to consider donating against the day that CASA decides it doesn’t like you any more.
There is nothing worse for a manager and I guess regulator, to lose control of the agenda because your underlings seem smarter or more capable or more successful than you.
APTA would, I suspect, know more about running a flight school under the new part ??? regime than any individual at CASA, having lived through the transition process. I suspect that that FACT was seen as a threat by CASA management. Similarly Angel Flight (public profile) and perhaps schutts, civil flying school, polair (?) and others even like the humble folk who want to band together for a milk run. If you are seen as a threat you’re gone.
Readers might like to suggest their own examples.
Assuming what i’ve suggested is true, GA businesses might like to consider donating against the day that CASA decides it doesn’t like you any more.
In two days we have passed the $10,000 mark, the amount a week Glen was losing after CAsA'S card.
Glen will know exactly how much each $10,000 will mean - every week he had to decide where that money would go.
Till he had no-more.
I want Glen to think long and hard if it is best to proceed or give up and start again, either way he has my support both in spirit and money.
Glen do not do it just for us (we want it) but only if you have full support of your family, you will need them (more than us).
Take as much time as you need.
Glen will know exactly how much each $10,000 will mean - every week he had to decide where that money would go.
Till he had no-more.
I want Glen to think long and hard if it is best to proceed or give up and start again, either way he has my support both in spirit and money.
Glen do not do it just for us (we want it) but only if you have full support of your family, you will need them (more than us).
Take as much time as you need.
Thread Starter
Hi all, Im back after a couple of days off air.
At the insistence of my wife, a visit to the doctor, which I am pleased to say confirms that I am stressed and anxious, but no hint of depression. I very much appreciate the sentiments and support, but be assured there is nothing to be concerned about. Energised and firing on all cylinders.
Regarding the Go Fund me page set up by a past employee. Thank you Cale. The support on there is overwhelming. My adult children don’t know all the details, after all it is a complicated matter. It must raise doubts when their Dad is banging heads with the Regulator. The messages of support and encouragement have removed ANY doubt from their mind. As a Dad, it’s a great burden to have lifted. Cheers all. Keep the messages coming. They send a clear message.
I appreciate the calls for Dick Smith to get involved. May I respectfully request that I ask Mr Smith to monitor. I believe I have a unique case to be tested i.e. nothing about safety, and nothing about regulatory breaches. It’s a clear demonstration of what happens when people apply opinion which cannot be supported by regulation. It strikes right to the heart of the PMs speech on expectations of the public service, CASAs regulatory philosophy, the Minister Statement of Expectations. It effects the entire industry, and I believe my case provides the perfect test case; I don’t know if I am right, but I think I am. Importantly, it won't be CASA that decides, and that is the purpose of the quest to raise $50,000.
If Dick Smith dropped $50,000 on the table, I suggest that would have less impact than 50,000 people dropping $1 each. Every donation is equally uplifting. I know some of the donors, and I know they are digging deep. This is a beautiful struggle and very uplifting. Whilst all the offers of assistance outside of the legal case are appreciated i.e. utilities, school fees etc, I see that very much as my own issue.
I am well underway on starting work as a Taxi driver, Uber driver, and a driving instructor. I am seeking support for the legal case only. If we can raise $50,000 that will facilitate a substantive law firm pulling the case apart and presenting their findings back to us on CASA’s unconscionable actions. Then I decide how to proceed.
I genuinely believe this first stage to be worthwhile.
I previously posted a letter to the PM and I can confirm that has been sent and received, I will shortly be writing to all Senators, and post my correspondence on here.
For those of you that have seen me shed a tear (admittedly the first to cry at a “chick flick” if that's PC still), that is not depression. That is actually the most heartfelt appreciation that a human being can have. Its something that hopefully few get to experience. But those that have experienced, will appreciate just how much each gesture means. Cheers all.
As a side note regarding Steve's article in Australian Flying, which I encourage you to buy a copy of the magazine; even buy a copy for your non aviator friends!! That is an enormous amount of work he has waded through. Massive file after, massive file, after massive file. I have no doubt, much of it unpaid. It really is an exceptional contribution, for me, and for the wider industry.
Lets go get em!
At the insistence of my wife, a visit to the doctor, which I am pleased to say confirms that I am stressed and anxious, but no hint of depression. I very much appreciate the sentiments and support, but be assured there is nothing to be concerned about. Energised and firing on all cylinders.
Regarding the Go Fund me page set up by a past employee. Thank you Cale. The support on there is overwhelming. My adult children don’t know all the details, after all it is a complicated matter. It must raise doubts when their Dad is banging heads with the Regulator. The messages of support and encouragement have removed ANY doubt from their mind. As a Dad, it’s a great burden to have lifted. Cheers all. Keep the messages coming. They send a clear message.
I appreciate the calls for Dick Smith to get involved. May I respectfully request that I ask Mr Smith to monitor. I believe I have a unique case to be tested i.e. nothing about safety, and nothing about regulatory breaches. It’s a clear demonstration of what happens when people apply opinion which cannot be supported by regulation. It strikes right to the heart of the PMs speech on expectations of the public service, CASAs regulatory philosophy, the Minister Statement of Expectations. It effects the entire industry, and I believe my case provides the perfect test case; I don’t know if I am right, but I think I am. Importantly, it won't be CASA that decides, and that is the purpose of the quest to raise $50,000.
If Dick Smith dropped $50,000 on the table, I suggest that would have less impact than 50,000 people dropping $1 each. Every donation is equally uplifting. I know some of the donors, and I know they are digging deep. This is a beautiful struggle and very uplifting. Whilst all the offers of assistance outside of the legal case are appreciated i.e. utilities, school fees etc, I see that very much as my own issue.
I am well underway on starting work as a Taxi driver, Uber driver, and a driving instructor. I am seeking support for the legal case only. If we can raise $50,000 that will facilitate a substantive law firm pulling the case apart and presenting their findings back to us on CASA’s unconscionable actions. Then I decide how to proceed.
I genuinely believe this first stage to be worthwhile.
I previously posted a letter to the PM and I can confirm that has been sent and received, I will shortly be writing to all Senators, and post my correspondence on here.
For those of you that have seen me shed a tear (admittedly the first to cry at a “chick flick” if that's PC still), that is not depression. That is actually the most heartfelt appreciation that a human being can have. Its something that hopefully few get to experience. But those that have experienced, will appreciate just how much each gesture means. Cheers all.
As a side note regarding Steve's article in Australian Flying, which I encourage you to buy a copy of the magazine; even buy a copy for your non aviator friends!! That is an enormous amount of work he has waded through. Massive file after, massive file, after massive file. I have no doubt, much of it unpaid. It really is an exceptional contribution, for me, and for the wider industry.
Lets go get em!
I can’t help but feel that the evil empire will be reading this and starting to think... What have we done... What have we started...
50k will be a start for sure but will not end the battle.
For GA and aviation to truly win, through the efforts of Glen is going to take a monumental effort.
Hats off to you mate, to have the fight left is truly inspirational indeed, the generation of today will learn from this.
The great Aussie movie The Castle comes to mind here.
50k will be a start for sure but will not end the battle.
For GA and aviation to truly win, through the efforts of Glen is going to take a monumental effort.
Hats off to you mate, to have the fight left is truly inspirational indeed, the generation of today will learn from this.
The great Aussie movie The Castle comes to mind here.
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Just caught up on the news Glen. You’re fighting a good fight mate. This thread and the go fund me shows how many mates are behind you and how many people you have touched and influenced over the years. You have my support and thoughts. Good luck mate.
Moderator
I can’t help but feel that the evil empire will be reading this....
Here’s what happens when you have the kind of fight with CASA that Glen’s contemplating:
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 1: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (includes Corrigendum dated 27 April 2010) [2010] FCA 367 (16 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 2: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 2) [2010] FCA 404 (29 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 3: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 3) [2010] FCA 514 (26 May 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 4: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 4) [2011] FCA 1126 (30 September 2011)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 5: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 5) [2011] FCA 1187 (20 October 2011)
Polar Aviation Full Court of the Federal Court: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2012] FCAFC 97 (4 July 2012)
One operator, 6 excursions to the Federal Court. You wouldn’t get much change out of $50K for the costs of just the first.
See if you can spot a safety issue in any of it.
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 1: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (includes Corrigendum dated 27 April 2010) [2010] FCA 367 (16 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 2: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 2) [2010] FCA 404 (29 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 3: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 3) [2010] FCA 514 (26 May 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 4: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 4) [2011] FCA 1126 (30 September 2011)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 5: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 5) [2011] FCA 1187 (20 October 2011)
Polar Aviation Full Court of the Federal Court: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2012] FCAFC 97 (4 July 2012)
One operator, 6 excursions to the Federal Court. You wouldn’t get much change out of $50K for the costs of just the first.
See if you can spot a safety issue in any of it.
Here’s what happens when you have the kind of fight with CASA that Glen’s contemplating:
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 1: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (includes Corrigendum dated 27 April 2010) [2010] FCA 367 (16 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 2: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 2) [2010] FCA 404 (29 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 3: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 3) [2010] FCA 514 (26 May 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 4: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 4) [2011] FCA 1126 (30 September 2011)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 5: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 5) [2011] FCA 1187 (20 October 2011)
Polar Aviation Full Court of the Federal Court: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2012] FCAFC 97 (4 July 2012)
One operator, 6 excursions to the Federal Court. You wouldn’t get much change out of $50K for the costs of just the first.
See if you can spot a safety issue in any of it.
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 1: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (includes Corrigendum dated 27 April 2010) [2010] FCA 367 (16 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 2: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 2) [2010] FCA 404 (29 April 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 3: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 3) [2010] FCA 514 (26 May 2010)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 4: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 4) [2011] FCA 1126 (30 September 2011)
Polar Aviation Federal Court Case 5: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority (No 5) [2011] FCA 1187 (20 October 2011)
Polar Aviation Full Court of the Federal Court: Polar Aviation Pty Ltd v Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2012] FCAFC 97 (4 July 2012)
One operator, 6 excursions to the Federal Court. You wouldn’t get much change out of $50K for the costs of just the first.
See if you can spot a safety issue in any of it.
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Around 2 1/2 days since the first Gofundme donation - currently sitting at $15,433.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/glen-buckley-v-casa
What is surprising compared to other Gofundme donations, is the average size of donations given to Glen's fund - many times larger than average.
Many people must really love Glen or have something against CAsA.
Some both I guess!!
https://www.gofundme.com/f/glen-buckley-v-casa
What is surprising compared to other Gofundme donations, is the average size of donations given to Glen's fund - many times larger than average.
Many people must really love Glen or have something against CAsA.
Some both I guess!!
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Disclaimer: I don't have enough time to read through those court cases so I cannot appreciate how relevant those are and how they compare with Glen's case.
Common sense dictates here that Glen: a. didn't try to bend the rules, b. played the transparency card from the beginning, c. consulted the regulator before taking any action that could result in a fait accompli, d. showed exemplary behaviour (in my opinion).
I am the first to find CASA's initial approval and support for APTA's approach surprising. After all, what is to prevent all smaller flight schools from joining APTA and calling themselves Part 142? That is clearly not the intended purpose of the Part 141/Part 142 distinction (whether one agrees with its necessity is obviously a different matter). In a certain sense, I even agree that CASA has a right to take a second look and fix the situation it helped create. But there are certain ways in which parties are expected to behave. A respectful and considerate attitude would have been for CASA to acknowledge the significant changes that its new position would bring about and give APTA and its members ample time to "fall back into the ranks" to avoid any major financial disruption to those involved. Some kind of "Mea culpa, mate, sorry".
I think Glen has a compelling case where next to nothing can be held against him and that's why I support him and believe his legal battle is one worth fighting for. His story also illustrates that no operator is immune to the regulator's whims. That's why Glen's battle is every operator's battle. This is Australia mate; everyone here gets a fair go.
I was telling someone about this thread yesterday and was asked about this. What is the relationship here?
Last edited by Squawk7700; 29th Aug 2019 at 07:54.
I think 4 people in CAsA are spending a lot of time on the phone and not sleeping very well.
donations
Just added to the donations.
There are a number of MP's who fly.
Gordon Rich-Phillips is a Victorian state member from coalition who is a pilot.
John Wacka Williams is an RV pilot, who has retired from the senate might like to get back at CASA.
I think the bloke Brad Buzzard?? from NSW state libs is a pilot.
There may be others.
We need a champion in the Fedral Parliament to take on the conniving lying parasites at CASA .
Mick
There are a number of MP's who fly.
Gordon Rich-Phillips is a Victorian state member from coalition who is a pilot.
John Wacka Williams is an RV pilot, who has retired from the senate might like to get back at CASA.
I think the bloke Brad Buzzard?? from NSW state libs is a pilot.
There may be others.
We need a champion in the Fedral Parliament to take on the conniving lying parasites at CASA .
Mick
John Wacka Williams is an RV pilot
David Forsyth is an ex fighter pilot I believe?