Glen Buckley and Australian small business -V- CASA
Very sad news.
Their latest here, following an incident on a private flight that was not a maintenance issue, is to tell me as registered operator that I am responsible for every single thing a private pilot does when hiring an aircraft I operate.
They have invented an AOC that I don't have, line pilots I don't have, fuel policy that is not the policy in my manuals, correspondence that was never received and reinvented the difference in responsibilities between an Operator and a Pilot in Command. For good measure they have added some subjective comments about my personality. (Yes I stand up for myself when faced with false accusations).
So not content with driving flying schools to the brink, they now want to shut down all private hire as well by making the operator liable for every action and decision made by the PIC as well as airworthiness. The result will be that the only way a pilot will be able to build Pilot In Command time will be to buy and operate their own aircraft.
I suppose I should be grateful, I know how hard it is to get an AOC, I had one for 20 odd years... and this CASA guy has just created one from thin air! You couldn't make it up!
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Their latest here, following an incident on a private flight that was not a maintenance issue, is to tell me as registered operator that I am responsible for every single thing a private pilot does when hiring an aircraft I operate.
They have invented an AOC that I don't have, line pilots I don't have, fuel policy that is not the policy in my manuals, correspondence that was never received and reinvented the difference in responsibilities between an Operator and a Pilot in Command. For good measure they have added some subjective comments about my personality. (Yes I stand up for myself when faced with false accusations).
So not content with driving flying schools to the brink, they now want to shut down all private hire as well by making the operator liable for every action and decision made by the PIC as well as airworthiness. The result will be that the only way a pilot will be able to build Pilot In Command time will be to buy and operate their own aircraft.
I suppose I should be grateful, I know how hard it is to get an AOC, I had one for 20 odd years... and this CASA guy has just created one from thin air! You couldn't make it up!
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Luckily we have a couple of good guys here in CASA who are guiding me through due process to lodge a formal complaint.
I won't post it here as it's now under investigation. I think being - quote- "uncooperative, hostile and argumentative" is justified when you are having false accusations thrown at you by someone and trying to tell the person that what they are saying is false, eg a person on their day off is not actually 100% responsible for a the safe conduct of a private flight taking place several hundred nautical miles away. The call was on speaker and one staff member commented afterwards "That was CASA?! I thought it was a journo fishing for a story!" and you know what, it could have been Geoffrey Thomas for all I know which is why I was telling them to read the ASIR in front of them which had all the details. The level of complete ignorance of this person made it very difficult to believe that they were who they said they were.
I won't post it here as it's now under investigation. I think being - quote- "uncooperative, hostile and argumentative" is justified when you are having false accusations thrown at you by someone and trying to tell the person that what they are saying is false, eg a person on their day off is not actually 100% responsible for a the safe conduct of a private flight taking place several hundred nautical miles away. The call was on speaker and one staff member commented afterwards "That was CASA?! I thought it was a journo fishing for a story!" and you know what, it could have been Geoffrey Thomas for all I know which is why I was telling them to read the ASIR in front of them which had all the details. The level of complete ignorance of this person made it very difficult to believe that they were who they said they were.
As Humpty Dumpty said to Alice: The safety of air navigation means just what someone in CASA chooses it to mean—neither more nor less.
Welcome to CASA Wonderland, Clare.
Welcome to CASA Wonderland, Clare.
LB I've been in this wonderland for a long time! Longer than some of the CASA people I have to deal with. This one tried to trigger a level 2 surveillance which he has no power to do.
Luckily, there are ones there who I have known for donkeys years since they were in industry and this one has been put back in his box. The others are very happy to guide me through the complaints process.
Luckily, there are ones there who I have known for donkeys years since they were in industry and this one has been put back in his box. The others are very happy to guide me through the complaints process.
But you shouldn’t have had to deal with the bull**** in the first place. Imagine if Hertz or Avis or another car-hire firm were told they were responsible for a licensed driver in a roadworthy hire car who happened to break the road rules or have an accident.
Other people may not have the benefit of contacts on the ‘inside’ of CASA. The fact that you have to resort to calling on their assistance, and they are prepared to provide it, is very telling of CASA’s corporate integrity.
Loose cannons rolling around on CASA’s deck are the responsibility of the captain.
Other people may not have the benefit of contacts on the ‘inside’ of CASA. The fact that you have to resort to calling on their assistance, and they are prepared to provide it, is very telling of CASA’s corporate integrity.
Loose cannons rolling around on CASA’s deck are the responsibility of the captain.
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Such an appalling state of things. I would be surprised if the national broadcaster didn't want to take a closer look into this with a 30 min or so investigation into this. I'm convinced that most people are completely oblivious to the damage done to the aviation community. As a foreigner here, I also view GA as an integral component of Australian history that's being slowly erased.
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I'd just like to emphasise that no favours have been done, all but the loose cannon doing the job they are paid to do. Having worked with these people in industry since long before they went to the "dark side" just makes communication easier. It didn't make any difference to the way they handled the situation or the outcome. Any other person in my position would be able to contact these same people for the same reason.
The loose cannon was very rapidly secured once he had said he was going to arrange a level two surveillance - something he had no absolutely power to do. How strongly secured remains to be seen but he would be a brave man to take me on again. He has put enough things in writing to make the job of the Industry Complaints Commisioner pretty straightforward.
The loose cannon was very rapidly secured once he had said he was going to arrange a level two surveillance - something he had no absolutely power to do. How strongly secured remains to be seen but he would be a brave man to take me on again. He has put enough things in writing to make the job of the Industry Complaints Commisioner pretty straightforward.
LB your analogy of the hire car is absolutely correct, in days gone by I worked as a hire car chick to help pay for my flying lessons and run the hire side of my business in exactly the same way.
You bend it, you mend it!
In this case however it was actually the C of R holder flying it, so even further removed from my responsibility!
You bend it, you mend it!
In this case however it was actually the C of R holder flying it, so even further removed from my responsibility!
Thread Starter
An impossible environment
Clare Prop, your challenges are the exact same situation I faced. In my case, it bought my whole business to its knees. It really does need a Royal Commission. Most operators in the industry would most likely concur that in Australia we have a unique, but absurd situation where one of the greatest threats to aviation safety in this country is actually the Regulator.
It operates in an environment where it has failed in its stated function to "achieve clear and concise aviation safety standards. In fact well over 80% of industry participants will agree with that statement. That increase in risk in our operating environment needs to be addressed.
It requires a Regulator that is engaging with industry and well intentioned. I point out that the majority of CASA personnel are. However a small few within the organisation choose not to act in accordance with their obligations.
They choose not to be well intentioned.
They choose not to operate in accordance with CASAs own Regulatory Philosophy
They choose not to act in accordance with CASA clearly stipulated procedures.
They choose to use public funds and resources inappropriately and in clear breach of their obligations under the PGPA Act.
They choose to totally disregard the Ministers Statement of Expectations.
They choose to make decisions on subjects that they do not have the technical competence to support.
They choose to bring the role of their fellow employees and public servants into disrepute.
They choose no make decisions that cannot be substantiated in law.
They choose not to respect the processes of Administrative Law.
They choose to bring harm to people for reasons other than safety or regulatory compliance.
I could go on and on and on. It is truly a disgrace. It does measurably and significantly impact on aviation safety in this Country, and it needs a Royal Commission in the interests of aviation safety. It is incumbent upon our aviation representative bodies to bring this to a head.!
It operates in an environment where it has failed in its stated function to "achieve clear and concise aviation safety standards. In fact well over 80% of industry participants will agree with that statement. That increase in risk in our operating environment needs to be addressed.
It requires a Regulator that is engaging with industry and well intentioned. I point out that the majority of CASA personnel are. However a small few within the organisation choose not to act in accordance with their obligations.
They choose not to be well intentioned.
They choose not to operate in accordance with CASAs own Regulatory Philosophy
They choose not to act in accordance with CASA clearly stipulated procedures.
They choose to use public funds and resources inappropriately and in clear breach of their obligations under the PGPA Act.
They choose to totally disregard the Ministers Statement of Expectations.
They choose to make decisions on subjects that they do not have the technical competence to support.
They choose to bring the role of their fellow employees and public servants into disrepute.
They choose no make decisions that cannot be substantiated in law.
They choose not to respect the processes of Administrative Law.
They choose to bring harm to people for reasons other than safety or regulatory compliance.
I could go on and on and on. It is truly a disgrace. It does measurably and significantly impact on aviation safety in this Country, and it needs a Royal Commission in the interests of aviation safety. It is incumbent upon our aviation representative bodies to bring this to a head.!
LB your analogy of the hire car is absolutely correct, in days gone by I worked as a hire car chick to help pay for my flying lessons and run the hire side of my business in exactly the same way.
You bend it, you mend it!
In this case however it was actually the C of R holder flying it, so even further removed from my responsibility!
You bend it, you mend it!
In this case however it was actually the C of R holder flying it, so even further removed from my responsibility!
And did the CASA loose cannon cite any regulation or section of the Act to support his/her theories, or was it just his/her superior judgment? I’m guessing it was a recent recruit who’s labouring under the misconception that they’ve been employed to impose their superior judgment on the industry.
Thread Starter
CASAs negative impact on safety
Clare Prop. Please tread very carefully. I am talking from personal experience. This is a classic example of CASAs failure to achieve clear and concise aviation safety standards, I can see it unfolding already. You are dealing with one of the exact type of personnel I mentioned in my post above; i.e. technically not competent. will not be able to support their decision by pointing to supporting regulations, bringing their own personality and attitudes into decision making, poor awareness of their own procedures, highly inconsistent with the decision that would be made by another CASA person in the same role, stubbornly refuses to admit error, has no accountability for decision making etc etc
Clare, if you are a pilot, or in the field of pilot training, you will recognise those characteristics I listed above as being the characteristics of a very dangerous pilot. Unfortunately, they are the characteristics of a pilot that gets people killed, tragically they are the characteristics of some within the Aviation Group of CASA.
It is these CASA personnel that make the inappropriate first move, as they did in my case. They choose to set the environment, and you are therefore forced to operate in the environment that they chose. They seem oblivious to the fact that a relationship of confidence and trust with industry enhances safety outcomes, and you don't need a Degree in Safety to work that out.
Firstly, CASA have tried this on me previously. Its truly ludicrous. Quite simply they don't understand their own rules I suggest. Why don't you stop it in its tracks!!!
Dear Mr XXXXXXX,
I am very much of the opinion that I have no legislative obligations related to the conduct of this flight.
If your view differs, can I respectfully request that you support your decision by directing me to the appropriate legislation. My expectation is that the legislation will be "clear and concise" as that is the requirement placed on CASA, as its core function in the Civil Aviation Act.
Respectfully, Clare Prop
Some tips. Don't get unnecessarily involved. Diarise every comment (things drag on, and its good to be able to draw back on), follow up any verbal discussion with an emailed summary.
If it blows up, get in contact with me. To be honest, I think it will be a bit of an embarrassment for CASA, and they will realise they have more important matters to be dealing with.
Clare, if you are a pilot, or in the field of pilot training, you will recognise those characteristics I listed above as being the characteristics of a very dangerous pilot. Unfortunately, they are the characteristics of a pilot that gets people killed, tragically they are the characteristics of some within the Aviation Group of CASA.
It is these CASA personnel that make the inappropriate first move, as they did in my case. They choose to set the environment, and you are therefore forced to operate in the environment that they chose. They seem oblivious to the fact that a relationship of confidence and trust with industry enhances safety outcomes, and you don't need a Degree in Safety to work that out.
Firstly, CASA have tried this on me previously. Its truly ludicrous. Quite simply they don't understand their own rules I suggest. Why don't you stop it in its tracks!!!
Dear Mr XXXXXXX,
I am very much of the opinion that I have no legislative obligations related to the conduct of this flight.
If your view differs, can I respectfully request that you support your decision by directing me to the appropriate legislation. My expectation is that the legislation will be "clear and concise" as that is the requirement placed on CASA, as its core function in the Civil Aviation Act.
Respectfully, Clare Prop
Some tips. Don't get unnecessarily involved. Diarise every comment (things drag on, and its good to be able to draw back on), follow up any verbal discussion with an emailed summary.
If it blows up, get in contact with me. To be honest, I think it will be a bit of an embarrassment for CASA, and they will realise they have more important matters to be dealing with.
NZ rego. is the way to go, many things (thanks to the Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Treaty --- have I got the name correct?) are much more straightforward than an N registered aircraft -- particularly airworthiness certification.
And the natives are friendly --- at NZ CAA.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Don't forget, you can use a "foreign" registered aircraft on an Australian AOC (remember '89) and a ZK- is even more straightforward, thanks to above said treaty.
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Apologies for the rookie question, but does a pilot need a CASA or an FAA licence in order to operate an N-reg aircraft in Aus?
I do suppose ZK would be another alternative. If you want super-easy and you have the cash, Caymans or Aruba.
CASA licence is valid for any aircraft registration if flown within Australia. The rule is 2 out of 3 of the following.
1. CASA FCL
2. VH reg
3. Flown within Australia
CASA licence is valid for any aircraft registration if flown within Australia. The rule is 2 out of 3 of the following.
1. CASA FCL
2. VH reg
3. Flown within Australia
I do suppose ZK would be another alternative. If you want super-easy and you have the cash, Caymans or Aruba.
CASA licence is valid for any aircraft registration if flown within Australia. The rule is 2 out of 3 of the following.
1. CASA FCL
2. VH reg
3. Flown within Australia
CASA licence is valid for any aircraft registration if flown within Australia. The rule is 2 out of 3 of the following.
1. CASA FCL
2. VH reg
3. Flown within Australia
Countries such as Caymans, Isle of Man, Aruba etc. work on a validation principle. You don’t get a Caymans FCL the same way you would get a CASA one (flight tests, exams etc.) but you get it on the basis of having an ICAO FCL. So if your CASA PPL gets cancelled, so does your validation one.