Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Glen Buckley and Australian small business -V- CASA

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Glen Buckley and Australian small business -V- CASA

Old 11th Sep 2019, 11:40
  #501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hamilton Island
Posts: 129
I think it's time to take a reality check of where the issue stands:-

The public whom travel by aircraft be it scheduled airlines, ad-hoc charter, air ambulance, charity flights, joy flights, are only interested in one thing - Safety ! The issue of this thread is of no concern to the travelling public.

In general, licenced pilot's, from PPL through to ATPL, by and large are not really affected by this thread.

A person choosing to learn to fly has far less options today to choose from due to the demise of country flying schools, that's an inconvenience, A serious issue in fact but of NO concern to CASA. Less people flying equals safer skies.

Any aspiring AOC holder for whatever function is NOT going to join into this argument - they will be penalised by CASA if their identity becomes known. Any existing AOC holder will be very careful for the same reason. CASA retribution!

This whole thread only directly affects ONE individual, and I know from personal experience that the Prime Minister, Deputy PM, local members, Judiciary, and any other body or learned people don't have any real interest, or will be instructed to be very guarded.

THIS IS OVER and FINISHED - nothing will eventuate from this only the adoption of the FAA system, and that will never happen - the second coming of Christ is a better bet.
Office Update is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 12:31
  #502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by Office Update View Post
I think it's time to take a reality check of where the issue stands:-

The public whom travel by aircraft be it scheduled airlines, ad-hoc charter, air ambulance, charity flights, joy flights, are only interested in one thing - Safety ! The issue of this thread is of no concern to the travelling public.

In general, licenced pilot's, from PPL through to ATPL, by and large are not really affected by this thread.

A person choosing to learn to fly has far less options today to choose from due to the demise of country flying schools, that's an inconvenience, A serious issue in fact but of NO concern to CASA. Less people flying equals safer skies.

Any aspiring AOC holder for whatever function is NOT going to join into this argument - they will be penalised by CASA if their identity becomes known. Any existing AOC holder will be very careful for the same reason. CASA retribution!

This whole thread only directly affects ONE individual, and I know from personal experience that the Prime Minister, Deputy PM, local members, Judiciary, and any other body or learned people don't have any real interest, or will be instructed to be very guarded.

THIS IS OVER and FINISHED - nothing will eventuate from this only the adoption of the FAA system, and that will never happen - the second coming of Christ is a better bet.

well said, about sums it up too. I feel for Glen but only he knows how far he wants to flog that dead horse.

machtuk is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 16:06
  #503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Melbourne, Australia + Washington D.C.
Posts: 394
Devil

Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
well said, about sums it up too. I feel for Glen but only he knows how far he wants to flog that dead horse.
Glen alone will carry this only so far. But what is to prevent, say, each and every one of us from sending a letter to the PM to ask for concrete change in GA?
How many would rally to the cause? I reckon 5000 fellow pilots and GA stakeholders is not a fanciful number. We draft a carefully written letter, everyone prints it out, signs and sends it to Canberra on a weekly basis. A matter of pocket change and finding a mailbox for most. Medium term, there's no way this will go unnoticed.

This system is dysfunctional because it is has no built-in checks and balances. Ultimately the only reason why Australia has settled for mediocrity while being country this big and with infrastructure in place to be at the top, is because we stakeholders allowed it to be. This picture above sums it all up: what good is all that extra paper if the resulting system is not safer than the alternative?
Okihara is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 21:55
  #504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hamilton Island
Posts: 129
Okihara,

Will not work. CASA will seek retribution on any person assisting Glenn in his cause. No petition will be received that is anonymous and unsigned.

As I said previously this thread and the issue at stake affects only ONE person, if you are a professional pilot working in the industry, you will get a smack on the bum from CASA, in one way or another.

In one post Glenn postured the question to CASA about their future intentions in regard to himself applying for a CASA approved position in any organisation in the future. The CASA response was that all applications will be assessed fairly based upon merit. CASA will find a reason to NOT approve any such application.

The very small amount of funding achieved to date is a reflection of the state of the claim being made against CASA and it's likelihood of succeeding, Zip!

THERE IS NO FUTURE IN THE CLAIM AGAINST CASA - ONLY HEARTBREAK -
Office Update is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 22:08
  #505 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,435
"The public whom travel by aircraft be it scheduled airlines, ad-hoc charter, air ambulance, charity flights, joy flights, are only interested in one thing - Safety !"

Office I don't think this statement is entirely correct, I would have said price interests the average punter far more than safety, as illustrated by the number who happily jump on foreign administered low cost carriers for their yearly sabbatical to Bali. Safety becomes an issue in Joe publics mind after the event not before.

Flying training is no different.

In UK some years ago, Virgin I think it was, were offering packages to Florida to learn to fly as the one size fits all EASA rules drove most flying schools out of business in Europe.

It's around half the cost in the US to learn to fly than here.I imagine the same would be true for other countries with sensible regulations such as NZ or Canada. The influx of foreign students I would suggest is more about a residency Visa than a flying licence, the Chinese brigade don't count because by and large they don't train to Australian rules they just use our airspace.

There has been US schools promoting here, even including the conversion costs from a US licence to an Australian one.

"In general, licenced pilot's, from PPL through to ATPL, by and large are not really affected by this thread."

I believe this statement is also not entirely correct, what CAsA is doing indirectly or directly affects everyone in aviation in this country from the top down and Australia is poorer for it.

"Any aspiring AOC holder for whatever function is NOT going to join into this argument - they will be penalised by CASA if their identity becomes known. Any existing AOC holder will be very careful for the same reason. CASA retribution!"

Finally we agree. I believe CAsA is corrupt and incompetent and I believe that is the thing that irks Australian's more than anything. We hear often of "A fair go", the problem is communicating that to Joe public who has very little understanding of how aviation works, they hear CAsA spin, with very little opposing argument.
The media seems ambivalent to aviations plight, there are far more sensational issues to report, social media is really the only way to get an issue out there.
There was an old Frank Sinatra song about a Ram and a Dam, keep butting and eventually the dam would collapse.
Whats the old adage?.. "when a few good men do nothing".
thorn bird is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 22:19
  #506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hamilton Island
Posts: 129
Thorny, Yes, and you do have a good 'handle' on the situation. EASA and Part 61 has destroyed dozens of country flying schools.
Office Update is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 23:42
  #507 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: melbourne
Age: 54
Posts: 464
Let there be NO DOUBT about my resolve!!!!!

This is the best analogy, I can make. It is dramatic, but my family will testify. There has been only one morning since October 2018 that I have woken after 3AM in the morning. I pace, I walk, I drive, and I occasionally run into bad guys. I am the one that has lived this for almost 12 months now. Let me very clearly and concisely set the scene.

I attend a working bee at my local school for 25 years. The most recent 15 years as the leader of a school committee on safety and OH and S. I put everything I have into that school community, everything. I have my own group of friends at the working bees, and I spend most of my time with them. I notice over the years a small group of people that don't appear to be pulling their weight. In fact, they actually seem to create work. Its almost like they want the working bees to fail.

Eventually I pull them aside, and simply ask them to support the school community. They obviously don't like the physical labor side of the working bee, and admittedly I did point that out to them. They actually seemed a little offended that I had picked them up on their behaviour. Nevertheless, I invited them to join me working on school issues regarding safety, compliance, OHS Etc. They smiled disingenuously at me.

I headed home to my family, had dinner together, watched a movie, shared a dessert, and retired to bed. It was October 2018, a beautiful night, and I may have been a bit lax with securing the house.

Anyway, as I slept calmly I was awoken unexpectedly by that same group from the working bee. They smashed down the door, and were armed tooth to nail with the most intimidating arsenal. They obviously wanted to get upstairs, and bring harm to me and my family. I armed myself with everything I had, but I was effectively taking a pop gun to the fight. What I did have was a resolve that they hadn't anticipated.

These pricks from the working bee, had burst into my house. If they got past me at the front door, I knew my families life would be effected. I knew that till my wifes very last breath on this planet, she was not going to get the finale that she is fully entitled to.

Can you imagine how hard you would fight. I can tell you from personal experience that you would fight with every dam thing you had, and would be breaking legs off chairs if you had to.

Imagine if you fought every waking moment for 10 months. Imagine if you were just exhausted, and despite your very best efforts, you passed out.

You knew that you had lost the battle for your own family. Imagine if you followed every single protocol and procedure, to have those persons continued membership of the working bee revoked. The best you could get was their mates to "review" it. All you wanted was someone independent, and with ethics, to simply review their continuity on the working bee.

What would you do?

Quite simply. I am not walking away.

If I let those people stay on the working bee, I know they will terrorise other neighbours. After 25 years in GA, I actually quite like my neighbours, all of them come along to the working bee, and actually work safely, in accordance with the rules.

I intend to right the wrong those individuals inflicted on me. I know that if I let them get away with it, they will be re-energised.

So, I do call on you for your support. I am asking for you to spread the word. The crowd funding page has slowed somewhat over the recent week, as I have been somewhat distracted with other matters. I will give it one last call to arms, and I will significantly increase my exposure.

Once that goal is achieved. The legal investigation can commence. I will get a substantive report, that I will publish. If that report comes out as I expect it will. I will have access to fund the case to a determination.

It will just be Glen Buckley against CASA.

Should i not achieve my target, i will commence a process to refund any funds contributed, and pursue a different course of action.

This is however an industry battle, a safety battle, a business battle, a governance battle, an ethics battle, a respect battle, a fairness battle, and a legal battle etc. It IS worth fighting for, in my humble opinion.

Quite simply, if after a substantive legal review the firm comes back and says. Well Glen, they are a pack of ratbags, but they did get you, then sadly. Then. The battle is over, but only then.

Last edited by glenb; 12th Sep 2019 at 09:22. Reason: heeding wise counsel
glenb is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 01:29
  #508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,406
CASA will seek retribution on any person assisting Glenn in his cause.
I really don't see this actually happening.
The National Party, on the other hand, is far more spiteful.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 01:53
  #509 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Straya
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Horatio Leafblower View Post
I really don't see this actually happening.
Nor can I.
Flaming galah is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 02:32
  #510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,435
"I really don't see this actually happening."

Really?

Horatio, there is rather a lot of evidence out there that would suggest it is a fairly common occurrence.
thorn bird is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 05:44
  #511 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Horatio Leafblower View Post
I really don't see this actually happening.
The National Party, on the other hand, is far more spiteful.
Really??? Have you not noticed that we now live in a country where the government spies on a friendly neighbour country under the guise of foreign aid work (nothing in the aid package mentioned installing bugs)... then when a government employee is so disgusted by their amoral behaviour they try to protest, goes through all the departmental processes and then when it all gets ignored, goes to the media. That person is now being prosecuted to the full extent of a draconian law based on a UK Law (which the UK have since repealed but we cling onto because Potato Head thinks being elected means we all become his personal serfs) along with their lawyer.

Yes, we live in THAT country... not the United States, where their Constitution specifically enjoins public employees to exercise due diligence in communicating with the media (e.g. telling the truth or risk prosecution) and implicitly protects journalists and the 'press' under their First Amendment. We on the other hand, live in that country where they raid the journalists home and/or offices to take documents. (they even allegedly considered doing the same to root out who leaked the Au Pair information).

20 years ago I would have said this wouldn't happen in Australia, now we are edging toward a Police State... we may not be one yet but we are certainly on the way to being one. So, let's not think for one minute that a government bureaucracy won't potentially act like a sewer rat to protect its own a-se.

Last edited by AerialPerspective; 12th Sep 2019 at 06:00.
AerialPerspective is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 06:21
  #512 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 164
Well said Aerial. Australia is fast turning into a despicable state.
Stickshift3000 is online now  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 08:15
  #513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 528
Originally Posted by Office Update View Post
I think it's time to take a reality check of where the issue stands:-

The public whom travel by aircraft be it scheduled airlines, ad-hoc charter, air ambulance, charity flights, joy flights, are only interested in one thing - Safety ! The issue of this thread is of no concern to the travelling public.

In general, licenced pilot's, from PPL through to ATPL, by and large are not really affected by this thread.

A person choosing to learn to fly has far less options today to choose from due to the demise of country flying schools, that's an inconvenience, A serious issue in fact but of NO concern to CASA. Less people flying equals safer skies.

Any aspiring AOC holder for whatever function is NOT going to join into this argument - they will be penalised by CASA if their identity becomes known. Any existing AOC holder will be very careful for the same reason. CASA retribution!

This whole thread only directly affects ONE individual, and I know from personal experience that the Prime Minister, Deputy PM, local members, Judiciary, and any other body or learned people don't have any real interest, or will be instructed to be very guarded.

THIS IS OVER and FINISHED - nothing will eventuate from this only the adoption of the FAA system, and that will never happen - the second coming of Christ is a better bet.
Aviation is very much like immigration in the public's eyes.

Both government departments are very similar - too much power and authority. Basically only the minister can step in to right a wrong, but that's like phoning a Fairy God Mother for help!

I had some very great issues with the Immigration Department, I did a Glen, and went into overload to try fix the wrong.

I received letters back from Senators, the Ombudsman, Department of Prime-minister and Cabinet and many Members. They all followed the same BS line, but I did not give up!

I got onto a talk back radio show one day to correct a false statement about immigration, but I got to get part of my story out as to why it was a incorrect statement.

John Laws was dumbfounded as to what I said, and passed me off to one of his Hand Maidens. I supplied the relevant documentation that was requested to the John Laws crew.

In less than a month my issue was no longer, nor were there any further issues with later dealings with the Immigration Department.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 09:34
  #514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 917
Keep going Glen, keep going. There are people working on ways to raise money, there are people approaching members of parliament. Keep going mate.
The name is Porter is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 10:10
  #515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 528
Originally Posted by Office Update View Post
Okihara,

The very small amount of funding achieved to date is a reflection of the state of the claim being made against CASA and it's likelihood of succeeding, Zip!

$26,516 by only 136 donors at an average of $195 per donor (no real big $10K donor) in only 17 days since first donation.

$1560 per day average for last 17 Days

$2613 raised in the last 7 days

$701 in last 48 hours

All from just a small group with no media grab yet.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 21:31
  #516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,061
Originally Posted by Sandy Reith View Post
Just to reinforce why CASA has taken the action against Glen. Years ago I attempted to hand over my flying school AOC permit to a couple that had been operating it for some time, one being Chief Flying Instructor already, and using their own aircraft. In other words everything exactly the same except the ownership name of the permit on a piece of paper. Would CASA transfer the AOC?
No.
Why? because they would have lost out on the money, some $ thousands in application, scrutinising and vetting backwards and forwards of a one off Operations Manual. CASA personnel would also have lost salary justification. These are the factors that have lead to the CASA change of policy towards Glen’s logical system to spread the administrative burden over a number of schools. Glen’s successful model was a direct threat to the make work money machine of CASA, the whole house of cards topped off with the fatuously titled Director of Air Safety on $600,000 pa.
Real reform requires political action, ring write contact your federal MP and Senators.

Flying school permit Australia; months? years? $50,000? $100,000? Several approved personnel, including graded instructor.
Flying school USA; No permit required.
Gain Instructor Rating (no gradings) $15.99 book and start immediately anywhere. (Yes the AIM price has risen $1.04 since last posted).



US:- $14.95 book with index. Start immediately with ins. rating. CASASTROPHE edited library $thousands, months or years, maybe permissible eventually.

You can’t ‘hand over’ your driver’s licence to someone else, and you can’t ‘hand over’ your pilot’s licence to someone else. (I suppose you physically can, but it won’t result in the other person being licensed to drive and fly.)

Whether an AOC should be required for an instructor to give flying instructions is a completely different question, as is the question whether the regulatory reform program now has any point other than to line the pockets of bureaucrats.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 22:05
  #517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,244
An AOC is a system that operates without being tied to an individual like a driver's licence. If a system is in place, the personnel can change and the outcomes will remain the same. This is why you can buy or take over an AOC.

As for instructing without an AOC, if it's your plane or the students I can't see a problem. If you wanna use someone else's plane to give instruction that's a little different.
pilotchute is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 23:09
  #518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,011
Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
An AOC is a system that operates without being tied to an individual like a driver's licence. If a system is in place, the personnel can change and the outcomes will remain the same. This is why you can buy or take over an AOC.

As for instructing without an AOC, if it's your plane or the students I can't see a problem. If you wanna use someone else's plane to give instruction that's a little different.
I think not. Don’t key personnel have to be “accepted “ by CASA? I would also have thought that not all AOCs are created equal because as Glens case appears to show, an AOC can be revoked/suspended/destroyed at the whim of a CASA staff member for any reason, real or not, at an time. That is the heart of the problem - the utterly unfettered powers of CASA to do exactly as it likes.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 01:32
  #519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,942
Glen,
I sincerely hope you reach your target, and I hope you have access to lawyers who have aviation knowledge, there are not many good ones around.
With you legal advisers, consider https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00238,.Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act 1977.
Forget the AAT.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 02:23
  #520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 164
Glen,

I imagine you’ve been following CASA’s grilling by the Senate’s RRAT standing committees over the bungled ATSB/CASA report into Angel Flight? These standing committees have oversight over CASA’s performance.

Senator Susan McDonald competently chairs this committee: https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_...an?MPID=123072

Email sent to you with offer of assistance.
Stickshift3000 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.