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QF buys 19.9% of Alliance

Old 11th Feb 2019, 07:08
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin Australia is an Australian company
Really? It might be incorporated in Australia but what does its share register look like? It's dominated by foreign entities: five foreign investors, including Etihad, Singapore Airlines and Richard Branson, own more than 90% of Virgin Australia. How can one define that company as being "Australian"?
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 07:46
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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How can one define that company as being "Australian"?
I don't define them that way, the Australian government does. They are an Australian company, domiciled in Australia, operating from bases in Australia, employing mostly Australian nationals on an Australian AOC (or four...). If they ever manage to make a profit they will pay tax in Australia. Their share holders however are overseas entities (mostly).

How can one not understand that?

Edited to add: Oh yeah, Qantas still call Australia 51% home.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 08:07
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 08:10
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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What's the argument for the Qantas 51% then given its biggest competitor is 90% foreign owned? One rule for all I thought. VA situation would not work in USA eg.

PS: Nice video but 51% beats 10% by any measure...
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 08:51
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Employing about 10,000 Australians. They needed foreign money to keep the business going and keep 10,000 people employed against a much larger and established competitor who has had the market to themselves for decades. Maybe Virgin could have a greater Australian ownership if QF and VA split the government contracts say 50/50. Easy to ride in on the high horse.

Alliance is hardly a ticking time bomb, exactly the opposite.
'
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 10:03
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Split the Govt contracts equals another 'work for the dole' issue! It is a competitive market. The Mail Room Clerk promised to take the game to QF. What happened? Opportunities lost I'd say. Many good girls and boys at VA . Lions led by sheep methinks!
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 10:55
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Hey Icarus! I refuse to argue with fools so I won't argue with you. I think you've been flying too close to the sun.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 11:13
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 12:11
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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What if Qantas’ plan isn’t to own Alliance, but to prevent Virgin from owning it?

If the ACCC knocks back Qantas on competition reduction then it would make it virtually impossible for Virgin to argue that they should be allowed to buy Alliance.

If the ACCC allowed the takeover that too would stick a branch in Virgin’s spokes.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 17:19
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Goat Whisperer View Post
What if Qantas’ plan isn’t to own Alliance, but to prevent Virgin from owning it?

If the ACCC knocks back Qantas on competition reduction then it would make it virtually impossible for Virgin to argue that they should be allowed to buy Alliance.

If the ACCC allowed the takeover that too would stick a branch in Virgin’s spokes.
well, if Virgin were sticking to their playbook, they’ll just buy 20% of Alliance on the market....

at least they’d used to board meetings with strange bedfellows....
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 21:01
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Qantas indicated in their Press Release that they were not seeking a Board seat in Alliance ... at least not at this time.

"Strategic Investment" waiting for an appropriate time to act?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 03:24
  #92 (permalink)  
ebt
 
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Originally Posted by Air Ace View Post
Qantas indicated in their Press Release that they were not seeking a Board seat in Alliance ... at least not at this time.

"Strategic Investment" waiting for an appropriate time to act?
Which would be fine, except that they made clear that they plan to take control of Alliance if/when given the green light by the ACCC. Not wanting a board seat "yet" is their way of being able to argue that they are not exerting control over a major supplier of their competitor, but there is no way in hell they are going to let the board stay like that if their shareholding is allowed to grow. That's also why Qantas have said nada to Alliance's management before, during or after the raid on their shares.

Qantas picked the right time, waiting for Austrian's lock-up period on its 9% stake to expire. Before the sale, Austrian was the second largest shareholder after a mystery investor through HSBC Nominees. And for them $60 million is change that fell down the back of the couch, while allowing them to snooker Virgin who cannot afford to get into a bidding war, or if they do will end up paying over the odds for it. Those with longer memories than mine will remember that QF and AN did that over Kendell's a long time ago, which saw AN win, but then ultimately lose for a whole bunch of reasons. For the sake of the industry, let's hope that bit of history doesn't repeat.

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Old 13th Feb 2019, 03:55
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just got this email 2nd hand from ACCC ...................................................The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is investigating Qantas’ acquisition of a 19.9% stake in Alliance Airlines, to assess its potential impact on competition and whether there has been a breach of section 50 of the Competition and Consumer Act. Attached to this email is a market inquiry letter that provides further details of the acquisition and questions that you may wish to address. In particular, we are seeking your views on:· whether Qantas and Alliance Airlines compete closely, and how the acquisition affects the incentive to compete· the impact of the acquisition on prices or service quality· impacts relating to the Virgin Australia-Alliance Airlines Charter Alliance Agreement. The letter can also be accessed on the .ACCC mergers register. Please note that comments and written submissions are requested by Monday, 4 March 2019. Please be assured that we will treat any written or oral submissions on a confidential basis. Please feel free to forward this email to any other person you consider may be interested. If you have any questions in relation to this matter, please contact me using the details below or John Rouw on 03 9290 1402.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:12
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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What 'ebt' said..............

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Old 13th Feb 2019, 16:11
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If Virgin had half a brain they would go buy 19.9% of alliance tomorrow morning and advise ASX and ACCC they want to buy 50%.................... Maybe thats to simple for Straya.

Forced JV with QF excellent.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 22:22
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4 Holer View Post
If Virgin had half a brain they would go buy 19.9% of alliance tomorrow morning and advise ASX and ACCC they want to buy 50%.................... Maybe thats to simple for Straya.

Forced JV with QF excellent.
The issue with that... is that there ISN’T 19.9% of shares just floating around like there was for Qantas (as Austrian was offloading theirs).
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 00:53
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin should then buy the shares available say 5% and start jumping up and down as a minority shareholder..... in the end agree to hold same shares amount as QF and the ACCC goes away. You know the Government will let QF buy Alliance they grounded Ansett/Tiger the list goes on etc etc to help QF so as if they won't let this share purchase by QF proceed.

Have a go, fight like an old school Aussie....
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:40
  #98 (permalink)  
ebt
 
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Originally Posted by 4 Holer View Post
Virgin should then buy the shares available say 5% and start jumping up and down as a minority shareholder..... in the end agree to hold same shares amount as QF and the ACCC goes away. You know the Government will let QF buy Alliance they grounded Ansett/Tiger the list goes on etc etc to help QF so as if they won't let this share purchase by QF proceed.

Have a go, fight like an old school Aussie....
If they were to buy a stake, they would want to take at least 10%, which would stop Qantas getting to 90% and thus being able to force a compulsory acquisition of Alliance. Or they could put their chequebook away, and just lobby the ACCC hard to make sure that Qantas can't gain control of Alliance. Much cheaper option, and I imagine Scurrah would want to tread carefully once he's in the hot seat.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 11:53
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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What 'ebt' said, .... again!!!!

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