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The Australian today QF - NY what pax want.

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The Australian today QF - NY what pax want.

Old 28th Jan 2019, 12:09
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 582
Well, after a long time not flying QF I was pretty bloody impressed on the weekend. I did the self check in and it had placed me in the exit row without the bullshit $25 (or whatever it is) privilege tax. I was about to grab the bag tag when a lass approached and asked what flight I was on. 'If i can get you on an earlier flight would you prefer that? There's a storm coming and you should beat any delays if you go earlier' You bloody beaudy. It took her quite a bit of re-arranging and I didn't really care if it suited QF's purposes to get me on another flight. Well done lass, I forgot to get your name but I hope they can track you down from my feedback.

I couldn't give a shit whether I get a drink or a feed on a 1 hour flight, you'd have to be a prize ******** to whinge about not getting a feed on these flights. All of the flighto's were older women and were professional, good humoured and not all about the image!

Bloody good flight, good onya's.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:03
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sydney
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If a small gym does eventuate (highly unlikely), it would be for business/first pax only. However, crew must be able to access it also. Management would hate this, can’t have the riff raff crew mixing with platinum FF’s, but for crew health on an ultra long haul flight some form of exercise is a must.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:51
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by MrWooby View Post
If a small gym does eventuate (highly unlikely), it would be for business/first pax only. However, crew must be able to access it also. Management would hate this, canít have the riff raff crew mixing with platinum FFís, but for crew health on an ultra long haul flight some form of exercise is a must.
As the University of Sydney 'study' Qantas paid for clearly attests it is passengers only.
Can bet the union is hard at work making sure the health of the poor souls crewing this is protected too/ sarc

A select group of passengers will wear medical research grade and clinically approved wearable devices that contain algorithms that record physical activity/sleep and posture changes. The devices will collect data throughout the entire flight. Two devices will be worn on the wrist and one on the thigh to monitor and measure passenger activities. Passengers will also complete questionnaires about their overall state of mind, food and beverage consumption, how they feel before, during and after the flight, with the aim of collating data that provides information around patterns as well as individual differences.
With no data on the long term effects of this nonsense, surely a legal duty of care to their staff who crew these things would be paramount?


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Old 28th Jan 2019, 21:15
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dunda
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post

With no data on the long term effects of this nonsense, surely a legal duty of care to their staff who crew these things would be paramount?
Itís a bit hard to have data of long term effects on things that are new. Like most shiftworkers part of a pilots pay reflects an unavoidable downside attached with working unusual hours.

If Qantas pilots have specific health and safety concerns there are health and safety representatives who have legal options to address these issues.

https://www.safework.nsw.gov.au/safe...epresentatives

If inflight physically activity is a concern one could make an appointment to see a Qantas contracted physiotherapist for inflight exercise options. Perhaps purchase a resistance band or get your HSR to petition the company to supply them.

Complaining you canít use the never-going-to-exist First Class squat rack doesnít especially help anyone.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 21:44
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lake Como
Posts: 29
It’s a bit hard to have data of long term effects on things that are new
Very true so lets monitor the passengers and not the crew, its a bit difficult to approach the health and safety reps without any data to back it up. Perhaps if a couple of crew develop some nasty cancer or just drop dead there might be something to go on. Might be a bit late for the crew involved but that's OK because;

Like most shiftworkers part of a pilots pay reflects an unavoidable downside attached with working unusual hours
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 22:44
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Originally Posted by Lezzeno View Post
Perhaps if a couple of crew develop some nasty cancer or just drop dead there might be something to go on. Might be a bit late for the crew involved but that's OK because;
Surely no long haul pilots go to work thinking theyíll live just as long as their twin brother the accountant who makes the same money working twice as many days but sleeps in his bed every night? By all means hammer the company to make it as safe as reasonably possible but much of it is unavoidable.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 00:06
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 526
Itís a bit hard to have data of long term effects on things that are new
.
We have current evidence that demonstrates that current tours-of-duty up to (and occasionally beyond) 20 hours are problematic. Yes, these are usually on an unplanned basis but the impact of of these duties is known. It is essential then, that every avenue be explored before a commitment is made to regulating planned 22 hour ToD's with an available extension to 24. That's what will be needed to crew JFK-SYD/MEL and SYD/MEL-LHR.

Like most shiftworkers part of a pilots pay reflects an unavoidable downside attached with working unusual hours.
….And whilst money apparently makes fatigue go away the difference between a ground-based shift worker and a Pilot, is the ground-based employee usually starts about the same time every shift for at least a fixed period, in the same location and doesn't suffer from longitudinal displacement among numerous other differences.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 01:17
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Surely no long haul pilots go to work thinking theyíll live just as long as their twin brother the accountant
There you have it, as a long haul pilot expect not to live as long as an accountant.

the accountant who makes the same money
How many pilots get paid the same as Tino?

working twice as many days
Looking at my roster the accountant would have to work 72 days every 56. Neat trick, reminds me of the statement "I earn less per hour than an A380 Captain". Who was it that said that?

By all means hammer the company to make it as safe as reasonably possible
Difficult if the company are only collecting data from the passengers and not the crew.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 02:47
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Surely no long haul pilots go to work thinking they’ll live just as long as their twin brother the accountant who makes the same money working twice as many days but sleeps in his bed every night? By all means hammer the company to make it as safe as reasonably possible but much of it is unavoidable.
Careful there Patty, are you now acknowledging that there is a causal link between long haul flying and disease, leading to premature death?
If that is so it is a breach of workplace, health and safety requirements.

That an airline accepts the causal linkage, yet knowingly excludes the crew exposed to repeated long haul risks will have litigation lawyers frothing at the mouth.
This is why provided nobody checks and fails to collect the data, airline management can hand on heart, pinky swear state to the court, that they didn't 'knowingly' expose crew to the increased risk.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 03:25
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Actually it is proven it is safer being in or flying an aeroplane, than being in or driving a car.

So the more you fly the safer you are - in fact you are so safe you should be paying something like an insurance premium, for being kept so safe for so long on ULH flights.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 05:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Actually it is proven it is safer being in or flying an aeroplane, than being in or driving a car.

So the more you fly the safer you are - in fact you are so safe you should be paying something like an insurance premium, for being kept so safe for so long on ULH flights.
Brilliant!

Now if airline management could only back that up with data to say pilots and cabin crew live longer, more fruitful and rested lives despite dietary, time zone and sleep disturbance, then as you say, the 'politician's logic prevails'

'My dog has four legs, my cat has four legs, therefore my dog is a cat....'

(Apologies to Sir Humphrey and Arnold for the paraphrasing)
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 06:52
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Brilliant!

Now if airline management could only back that up with data to say pilots and cabin crew live longer, more fruitful and rested lives despite dietary, time zone and sleep disturbance, then as you say, the 'politician's logic prevails'

'My dog has four legs, my cat has four legs, therefore my dog is a cat....'

(Apologies to Sir Humphrey and Arnold for the paraphrasing)
Oh the airlines have the data.

Just the accountants are busy on overtime, working out the premium to charge you.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 07:44
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 69
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Cool

Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Careful there Patty, are you now acknowledging that there is a causal link between long haul flying and disease, leading to premature death?
If that is so it is a breach of workplace, health and safety requirements.

That an airline accepts the causal linkage, yet knowingly excludes the crew exposed to repeated long haul risks will have litigation lawyers frothing at the mouth.
This is why provided nobody checks and fails to collect the data, airline management can hand on heart, pinky swear state to the court, that they didn't 'knowingly' expose crew to the increased risk.
Rated , donít ask Qantas why they allowed all of their pilotís audiometric data from recruiting days to be destroyed !
Makes it hard to establish a base line , doesnít it !
Itís also an interesting story as to the lengths to which the Company management have gone to , fighting the HSRís , in order to not have to install noise attenuating headsets on the 737 , even though they assented to noise cancelling headsets on other less noisy flight decks !
At least they now allow pilots to purchase their own headsets .
Bonusí before safety !




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Old 29th Jan 2019, 07:53
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 34
Cool

Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Turn the isles into treadmills.
Make all the seats massage seats.
Have a dating app for the pax on the plane.
.
Tie the aisle treadmill to powering something necessary like the entertainment system.
Oooooh yes to massage seats.
mmmm may have to supply those beds if supplying a dating app.

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Old 29th Jan 2019, 08:29
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
Rated , donít ask Qantas why they allowed all of their pilotís audiometric data from recruiting days to be destroyed !
Makes it hard to establish a base line , doesnít it !
Itís also an interesting story as to the lengths to which the Company management have gone to , fighting the HSRís , in order to not have to install noise attenuating headsets on the 737 , even though they assented to noise cancelling headsets on other less noisy flight decks !
At least they now allow pilots to purchase their own headsets .
Bonusí before safety !
Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence.

Very interestingly, as QF choose not to include crew in their 'study' of passenger sleep patterns and the like is in fact, prima facie a very interesting omission.
Recent court decisions, even in the antipodes, of higher courts led to changes in the way occupational disease was compensated.
There is, in many jurisdictions no longer the plaintiff's burden to satisfy the court of the link.

That Qantas choose to have no data on crew is interesting, perhaps Patty realises the muck he or she has stepped in. That Qantas consider data on the passengers important, implies they know there are impacts that they wish to quantify and therefore minimise..

Despite the dubious nature of the study and its likely 'funding' a well trained lawyer would effortlessly suggest that without credible long term data, QF could not infer that there is no increased risk to their crew. Those crew to which they have a duty of care.
Excluding crew, particularly when stepping beyond existing TOD limits without physiological data studies, inferring there is no long term health impacts is a dangerous path. Perhaps they hoped nobody would notice?




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Old 29th Jan 2019, 08:46
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
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Qantas now being self insured in these matters , so I’ve been told , how would that influence the decision making process Rated ?
Bonus’ all round , here , here !
Another bottle of Grange with lunch ?
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 08:55
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 2,561
What I want is an airline who lives up to the glossy brochures, thatís all.
Safety, actual safety, an easy breezy no hassles experience, air conditioning on the ground, edible food (not sh!t on a stick), staff who give a sh!t like they do on the ads, clean aircraft. Basically the bullish!t they sell as the service youíll get, Iíd settle for that.
My thoughts exactly. Not food slopped into a cardboard box. Ditch the plastic cutlery and go back to metal. (No it is not s security issue, see business class)
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 09:34
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 337
That Qantas choose to have no data on crew is interesting
It is also wrong.

There already is a fatigue study going on at Qantas for 787 pilots on ULR ops. They are using an external company, in conjunction with AIPA, to asses the rest attained and resulting fatigue of crew flying these sectors. It uses a questionnaire on recent sleep/wake history and an app to asses real time fatigue levels.
They are also looking at A380 crew to get a baseline from which to compare.

The main problem with the study at this point is that, disappointingly, not enough crew are volunteering to participate in the study in order to get sufficient data.

Yes, it is a different study than that of the passengers, but for many obvious reasons that is entirely appropriate.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 10:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
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ULR flights are a bit like test cricket.

A Mexican wave from front to back can be started to see how long it takes to disengage the AP.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 10:21
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post

The main problem with the study at this point is that, disappointingly, not enough crew are volunteering to participate in the study in order to get sufficient data.
As you would well know, there was an extensive study over a decade ago involving crew members wearing wrist monitoring devices, maintaining logs, and even conducting simulator sessons immediately after long-range ops to assess their fatigue-affected competency. It involved a lot of volunteer work from pilots and was conducted with the leading Australian sleep institute at Adelaide University.

When the report came out, it presumably contained answers that the Company did not like, and apparently even the Mafia would have been impressed at how quickly, quietly and deeply the report was buried - never to be seen again.

So, does anyone wonder why they are a little short on volunteers for this latest ďstudyĒ?
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