Hawke Ailing?
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That about sums it up, everyone is entitled to either mourn his passing or dance in the streets with glee for a democracy allows that & there's nothing the BH lovers can do about it, that's the part I love!:-)
Last edited by machtuk; 3rd Jan 2019 at 01:31.
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For the record the AN 767-200 aircraft where originally ordered for delivery in 1982 with a 3 man hard wired cockpit
The first crews where trained by Boeing in the B767-200 hare wired simulator.
Due to a downturn in traffic the aircraft were not delivered until 1983, during intervening period the Presidential Enquiry into crew complement took place ,probably due to the Airbus A300 being certified with 2 crew.
The outcome of the equiry paved the way for Boeing to certify the 757 with 2 crew and subsequent recertification of the 767-200 with 2 crew.
The first crews where trained by Boeing in the B767-200 hare wired simulator.
Due to a downturn in traffic the aircraft were not delivered until 1983, during intervening period the Presidential Enquiry into crew complement took place ,probably due to the Airbus A300 being certified with 2 crew.
The outcome of the equiry paved the way for Boeing to certify the 757 with 2 crew and subsequent recertification of the 767-200 with 2 crew.
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You blokes can sure wallow in it.Have you ever thought of the lives destroyed because of the actions of the pilots?The ones that had tourist businesses in the north and in places like Tasmania.Went broke,lost the lot when the planes didnt arrive.A few suicides there i bet.According to Brad Norrington who wrote Sky Pirates you bought all upon yourselves.As someone said elsewhere Hawke wasnt going to have a wage breakout and the accord destroyed by a bunch of pilots.Wake up to yourselves and face facts.
The prognosis made then for salaries and working conditions for flight crew has certainly become a reality.
A Hierarchical Salary study of pilot salaries conducted today, as in 1966, would establish pilot salaries are at least 50% lower than they should be.
Fatigue is currently on the lips of every pilot, every day: pilots pay for their own meals, car parking, uniforms, etc., company loyalty is a thing of the past with control of what may passably be called family lifestyle is totally within the company’s hands.
When next the SLF flies perhaps they should remember the sage words of John Glenn sitting atop a Mercury rocket:
“How you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of 2 million parts — all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.”
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The reality was `The Accord’ had passed its use by date with all unions including the ACTU against it continuing.
The prognosis made then for salaries and working conditions for flight crew has certainly become a reality.
A Hierarchical Salary study of pilot salaries conducted today, as in 1966, would establish pilot salaries are at least 50% lower than they should be.
Fatigue is currently on the lips of every pilot, every day: pilots pay for their own meals, car parking, uniforms, etc., company loyalty is a thing of the past with control of what may passably be called family lifestyle is totally within the company’s hands.
When next the SLF flies perhaps they should remember the sage words of John Glenn sitting atop a Mercury rocket:
“How you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of 2 million parts — all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.”
The prognosis made then for salaries and working conditions for flight crew has certainly become a reality.
A Hierarchical Salary study of pilot salaries conducted today, as in 1966, would establish pilot salaries are at least 50% lower than they should be.
Fatigue is currently on the lips of every pilot, every day: pilots pay for their own meals, car parking, uniforms, etc., company loyalty is a thing of the past with control of what may passably be called family lifestyle is totally within the company’s hands.
When next the SLF flies perhaps they should remember the sage words of John Glenn sitting atop a Mercury rocket:
“How you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of 2 million parts — all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.”
Seriously! DK, are you comparing what pilots do in modern jet transport, with John Glenn "sitting atop a Mercury rocket"?
The pilots I fly with don't pay for their own meals, car parking, uniforms etc. I must have missed that part when I was reading a copy of the collective agreement. And those groups that have foregone all of the above in order to sell their souls, well more fools them!
Modern aircraft have NEVER been easier to manage or handle; hell they just about do everything for you except wash your dishes! Don't kid yourself it's a hard gig, it's not. Nothing could be further from the truth. That "Austronaut" syndrome is just that!
Regarding fatigue, yes it's an issue across all industries, not just confined to aviation. Globalisation plays a big part in all of this. In Australia we must be competitive if we're to survive. Unfortunately the average punter will always vote with their wallets, so will always be on the lookout for $59 airfares. The rise of the LCC has allowed those folk who would never previously have been able to fly from A to B to do so. But it comes at a price! Maintenance on demand, cheaper labour costs, less support, more onerous rostering ie more productivity etc. the list in not exhaustive.
And whilst on the subject of fatigue, I'm sick of hearing how people say they've been working like drovers dogs and always tired, yet these same people are the first to tell me how they've been working on RDOs. Give me a break, what hypocrites.
It's a new world, I was around in '89, but consequentially had my career stopped in its tracks in GA. However, as difficult as it may be for many of those to accept, move on because nobody else since cares one iota! Yesterday's news!
Last edited by Baxter Dewall; 3rd Jan 2019 at 08:15.
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I recall that the 27 or 29% was an ambit claim. A train driver that I knew at the time told me that the pilots were stupid putting such a low ambit claim. The train drivers always asked for 100% (with union and ACTU backing ) and he said that they always came out smiling. Perhaps it was because they were "Labour types". Hawke came from the ACTU, didn't he?
There is obviously still much emotion attached to 1989. However, those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past. Essentially, the AFAP declared war and then found that the other side did not react the way they had anticipated they would. Roll forward to the present and you have AFAP declaring war on AIPA with the one pilot union aspirations and rogue negotiators negotiating the Jetstar EBA. Just like 1989, I don’t think that either of these are going to work out the way the AFAP expect.
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The subject has been adequately debated for all perspectives to have been presented.
Thanks to all those that participated.
Thanks to all those that participated.
