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It was the night before Christmas

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It was the night before Christmas

Old 28th Dec 2018, 10:11
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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That was the point Bullwinkle, the only people who donít actually matter are management.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 20:28
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
That was the point Bullwinkle, the only people who don’t actually matter are management.
Thanks Gordon, it was the point.

At the time of posting, NYE celebrations are underway in the UK, Waterside is quiet. In the antipodes Australia wakes to a new year's day, presumably with hangovers and good intention.
Meanwhile at Coward street, the sole security guard commences his rounds in the carefully temperature controlled silent offices.

Yet just a short distance away from Waterside, in Heathrow, the last of the evenings departures are scheduled, the crews brief, the fuel and freight are loaded.
Over at Sir Charles Kingsford Smith airport, the domestic network has been steadily moving people from A to B for a few hours now.

Not an airline administrator, 'manager' or executive in sight.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 22:00
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I feel sorry for them. Imagine not actually mattering.....imagine if the productitivity continued regardless of your absence, it would be a pretty hollow feeling. I’d get so down that I’d probably wander out to the Merc, drive to the beach house and watch the boats coming past the jetty while drinking red wine.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 06:24
  #24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 73qanda View Post
I feel sorry for them. Imagine not actually mattering.....imagine if the productitivity continued regardless of your absence, it would be a pretty hollow feeling. I’d get so down that I’d probably wander out to the Merc, drive to the beach house and watch the boats coming past the jetty while drinking red wine.
Has it ever crossed your mind why there is so much animosity towards air crew at airlines?
No one dreams of being 'administrator' or indeed an 'accountant'. Children wanted to be firemen, train drivers, nurses or even pilots.
Aviation was perhaps an area of mystique, there was and still is, something fascinating watching an aircraft weighing many hundreds of tonnes departing an airport and next touching land 6000 miles away.
Children still do wave at trains and they still press their faces against the fence or the glass in a terminal looking at aircraft. Have yet to see gleaming children waving at cubicle dwellers.

It depends on how one wishes to spend their lives. If it is accumulation of possessions and fiat currency then they win.
Most airline employees join airlines with at least a little fascination of aviation, be they check in, ramp, dispatch, engineering or flight crew.
For those looking longingly at their late model Mercedes or their beaches houses and have to return to the cubicle in a few short weeks, confronting another 48 weeks of sheer human misery, cold comfort can be found in another deep gulp of expensive red wine. At least for a while.

The dark arts have the ascendancy industrially, they dream up another scheme to turn person against person they too, in the quiet time actually envy those that can.
Working for airlines as front line crew is a far different way to live than endless days of cube farming in a corporate BS factory, with or without the leased Mercedes.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...02-p4zv33.html

Imagine a life like that?
It would need to be a decent beach house and a late model Mercedes.
Now convicted criminal former CFO Peter Gregg loved his bonus time at QF. He fancied his new AMG Mercedes.
Not quite sure how he will park it is his new accommodation at Her Majesty's pleasure.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 09:41
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Rated De,
Peter Gregg is not in Prison. His case is still before the Court. Should Peter be sentenced to a serve time it will be fairly minimal.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 19:02
  #26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by B772 View Post
Rated De,
Peter Gregg is not in Prison. His case is still before the Court. Should Peter be sentenced to a serve time it will be fairly minimal.
A convicted felon is a convicted felon.
Justice Rares mentioned a distinct possibility of a custodial sentence, but suffice to say either way Mr Gregg won't be holding any corporate high office any time soon.
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Old 21st Dec 2019, 03:06
  #27 (permalink)  
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Airline management and Christmas cheer.

It is the week before Christmas, customary emails are dispatched strangely not on Friday, but a day early.
Continued in the hollow words are vague references to enjoying time off with family and loved ones, written and vetted from an air conditioned office well away from the operational parts of the business.
The computers, monitors and electronic equipment turned off, the desks on which they sit clean and uncluttered: The desks will remain that way well into the New Year, where resplendent from a break they return.
Those offices by close of business Thursday will be vacant not to be a hive of activity for a few weeks. There will be little activity, other than random patrols of contracted security,

Forgotten in the empty words form "leaders" and "managers" , "media and communications" is that they actually contribute very little to the bottom line. Sure buried in there are functions in support of operations, but other than manufactured workflows, one might posit what do they actually do?

Conspicuous in their absence, flights still depart on time. The passengers checked in, their bags scanned, loaded and safely onboard. The passengers greeted as they board, by enthusiastic cabin crew, trying to make their travel as pleasant as the operational constraints permit, they take their seat. The fuel loads, the catering, the flight plans are devoured by flight crew and the aircraft readied for take off.
Airline management keen to save on fuel, "encourage" crew to not use the APU for cooling or heating until required, engine starts are delayed and single engine taxi the standard...All to save energy.

In the antipodes, passengers and crew swelter, trying to save a thimble full of fuel. The fuel savings translate into real dollars; dollars not shared by the flight crew who generate them, rather straight into the pockets of people in offices.
In those same now empty offices, the silence is met with the light ever present hum of the air conditioning. Buildings, largely vacant kept at a comfy 23 degrees, while paying customers and operational crew swelter or freeze.

For the check in staff, the baggage handlers, the engineers, pilots and cabin crew, Christmas is but a contractual obligation. Failure to be there a serious disciplinary breach. Of course no action will be taken for a few weeks for HR isn't there.

Imagine the last week, the week before Christmas at most major western airlines: Imagine the buzz, Christmas parties, decorations and festivity.
Contrast that to the life of the operational staff.

Lucky to see a mince pie ir at all, the one thing consistent other than empty rhetoric from "management" about relaxing and enjoying the time, is scrooge.

While not a statistically valid sample, what does your airline do?
Do operational crew get anything other than rhetoric and thinly veiled threats?


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Old 21st Dec 2019, 08:40
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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"Has it ever crossed your mind why there is so much animosity towards air crew at airlines?"

Look in the mirror De, look in the mirror.............................
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Old 21st Dec 2019, 14:42
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Has the FAA grounded Santa this year due to the lack of an airworthiness certificate for the sleigh? At least the sleigh was not a variation of a 737 (not to the best of our knowledge, amyway) .....
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Old 21st Dec 2019, 20:34
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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As per handling notes below, there appears to be no risk of any issues that have affected the 737 Max.

It may be timely to review the procedures again, in case anyone is rostered on due sickness or unforeseen circumstances:

https://www.airleague.com.au/wp-cont...eigh_I__II.pdf
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Old 21st Dec 2019, 22:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Imagine the last week, the week before Christmas at most major western airlines: Imagine the buzz, Christmas parties, decorations and festivity.
Contrast that to the life of the operational staff.
Been on both sides of the fence. At most of those parties literally every staff member that attended gets a prize, be it free flights, a bank of accommodation etc. Compare that to not even being able to catch up with family, friends and colleagues when you're on the front line because rosters don't align etc. It's such a thankless task. But you do get the 'spare a thought for our colleagues working through the festive season' email.
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Old 21st Dec 2019, 23:38
  #32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 12-47 View Post
Been on both sides of the fence. At most of those parties literally every staff member that attended gets a prize, be it free flights, a bank of accommodation etc. Compare that to not even being able to catch up with family, friends and colleagues when you're on the front line because rosters don't align etc. It's such a thankless task. But you do get the 'spare a thought for our colleagues working through the festive season' email.
That was the point of this thread.
Have seen staff operating on Christmas day with accompanied family FOC. (One airline)
Another understood the isolation of Christmas such that they ensured that allowances were paid in excess of minimum to facilitate the crew member (be they cabin or flight crew) being at least able to have a meal (a different airline)

And a number in our experience are simply hollow empty emails.
Long after they all depart for "festivities" the operation goes on.

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Old 21st Dec 2019, 23:42
  #33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
As per handling notes below, there appears to be no risk of any issues that have affected the 737 Max.

It may be timely to review the procedures again, in case anyone is rostered on due sickness or unforeseen circumstances:

https://www.airleague.com.au/wp-cont...eigh_I__II.pdf
Brilliant...
Il existe!
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 00:44
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
That was the point of this thread.
Have seen staff operating on Christmas day with accompanied family FOC. (One airline)
Another understood the isolation of Christmas such that they ensured that allowances were paid in excess of minimum to facilitate the crew member (be they cabin or flight crew) being at least able to have a meal (a different airline)

And a number in our experience are simply hollow empty emails.
Long after they all depart for "festivities" the operation goes on.
And then there are those of us who just accept that I knew from the start that my job involves work during all hours of the day, the year, whatever.

I donít care if someone working in an office has a great Christmas party and then gets Christmas off, I never attend the staff Christmas party anyway. Thatís a benefit of their job.

I get 6 weeks leave per year and flexibility in my roster. They donít.

Whatís your point again Rated?
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 01:46
  #35 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by morno View Post


And then there are those of us who just accept that I knew from the start that my job involves work during all hours of the day, the year, whatever.

I donít care if someone working in an office has a great Christmas party and then gets Christmas off, I never attend the staff Christmas party anyway. Thatís a benefit of their job.

I get 6 weeks leave per year and flexibility in my roster. They donít.

Whatís your point again Rated?
^^^
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 02:15
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post


And then there are those of us who just accept that I knew from the start that my job involves work during all hours of the day, the year, whatever.

I donít care if someone working in an office has a great Christmas party and then gets Christmas off, I never attend the staff Christmas party anyway. Thatís a benefit of their job.

I get 6 weeks leave per year and flexibility in my roster. They donít.

Whatís your point again Rated?
Exactly...!

Wow the bitterness and victim mentality is amazing....letís not talk about the conditions you receive to do your job including additional leave and loadings and significant salary because ....you chose to be a shift worker. Others chose to be a normal office worker and cop only 4 weeks leave and probably a much lower salary than you...think of them when you take 2 months off on your European holiday next year with plenty of leave left over in the kitty.

Did you think you could still be a pilot on several hundred thousand a year, only work a limited amount of hours a week and still get 6-7 weeks leave but also only do 9-5 and no weekends??!

Yep you will work over Christmas suck it up.....just like you do the 300k pay cheque you canít have it all!

This us versus Ďmanagementí people victim mentality is pathetic.
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 02:25
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Let’s just put the leave into perspective please, the additional two weeks are to cover public holidays.
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 02:59
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Letís just put the leave into perspective please, the additional two weeks are to cover public holidays.
Yes the six weeks leave that airline pilots of the two scheduled carriers in our data set would be the to cover the gazetted public holidays which they and other shift workers do not get.
(Of which there are between ten and fourteen)
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 03:13
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Yes the six weeks leave that airline pilots of the two scheduled carriers in our data set would be the to cover the gazetted public holidays which they and other shift workers do not get.
(Of which there are between ten and fourteen)
Yeah, and I can still even put a request in to get them off! Who wants to go on holidays at the same time as everyone else anyway?

We all know you hate management Rated, but I have zero problem with how the leave entitlement works. And Iím sure many others donít mind either.
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Old 22nd Dec 2019, 03:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post


Yeah, and I can still even put a request in to get them off! Who wants to go on holidays at the same time as everyone else anyway?

We all know you hate management Rated, but I have zero problem with how the leave entitlement works. And Iím sure many others donít mind either.
You can put a request in? lol.

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