Virgin Australia Priority For Boarding
Zanthrus,
Just because a military person isn't in a combat job doesn't mean that they don't take risks.
Ships catch fire and helicopters crash even in peace time.
I'm not going to get into an argument about what job is more dangerous but remember that police, firefighters etc all get go to home at end of shift. Many defence personel spend weeks and months away from home. Even the lowly clerks and cooks.
Just because a military person isn't in a combat job doesn't mean that they don't take risks.
Ships catch fire and helicopters crash even in peace time.
I'm not going to get into an argument about what job is more dangerous but remember that police, firefighters etc all get go to home at end of shift. Many defence personel spend weeks and months away from home. Even the lowly clerks and cooks.
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Pretty sure my ADMINO was as much risk as we were, yet many more were at a much higher risk. Everyone involved there was an important part of the overall mission. This type of argument has been an absolute embarrassment on the DVA related FB pages, remember we were all part of the team.
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Professional Amateur, what a load of ****. So Police don't sign up to risk their lives for the community the same as ADF members do? By the way many ADF members are not risking their lives as they are not in combat roles. You are a tosser to think that the military is all high and mighty above all else. I respect their service, but no more than any other profession.
Sorry, Gents, I have to disagree.
I think the community as a whole should be more appreciative of their current and ex defence members.
I say this as an ex defence member myself.
With a wife in the allied health industry, it has angered me in times past when I have heard about the treatment of veterans by the Dept of Vet Affairs. You would swear that the shiny bum bureaucrats were personally funding the treatment that these ex members (who had suffered mental or physical damage on our behalf) were seeking. The veterans (or their spouses) had to really fight the clerks to have their course of treatment approved. This was not exceptional. It was usual.
If this is a step to recognise the contribution of these people to our nation, regularly and routinely - not just on ANZAC day, then I am for it. Yes it is a bit cheesy, but it is moving in the right direction.
Give the Vets it all: cheap fares, higher tax free threshold, reduced car rego, etc.
For the most part, I enjoyed my military time. While I got away from my time in the military unscathed, I went to 13 funerals of friends and colleagues - in peacetime! Not to mention the sacrifices of the families involved.
I know that friends who have not had exposure to the military life cannot believe some of the stories my wife has told them about her life as a military spouse. The public as whole has no idea.
Thank you for your service and sacrifice. Lest we forget.
I think the community as a whole should be more appreciative of their current and ex defence members.
I say this as an ex defence member myself.
With a wife in the allied health industry, it has angered me in times past when I have heard about the treatment of veterans by the Dept of Vet Affairs. You would swear that the shiny bum bureaucrats were personally funding the treatment that these ex members (who had suffered mental or physical damage on our behalf) were seeking. The veterans (or their spouses) had to really fight the clerks to have their course of treatment approved. This was not exceptional. It was usual.
If this is a step to recognise the contribution of these people to our nation, regularly and routinely - not just on ANZAC day, then I am for it. Yes it is a bit cheesy, but it is moving in the right direction.
Give the Vets it all: cheap fares, higher tax free threshold, reduced car rego, etc.
For the most part, I enjoyed my military time. While I got away from my time in the military unscathed, I went to 13 funerals of friends and colleagues - in peacetime! Not to mention the sacrifices of the families involved.
I know that friends who have not had exposure to the military life cannot believe some of the stories my wife has told them about her life as a military spouse. The public as whole has no idea.
Thank you for your service and sacrifice. Lest we forget.
Are you aware of what Dutton's department is currently doing to the niece of Nancy-Bird Walton??? Some trumped up rubbish about her not being a citizen, despite having held passports all her life which stated Australian citizen. Her mother was from PNG (an Australian Colony/Territory at the time) and her father is Nancy-Bird's younger brother, decorated by both Australia and the USA for his service in the Pacific.
Nancy-Bird's niece who is being victimised and intimidated by this joke of a department (Border Farce) has explained how she was threatened by an ABF case-worker, being told "Do you know I can knock your door down, drag you out of your apartment and I would be happy to do it".
I mean, how does a department get to a place where it even has the thought process that leads it to a point where it goes looking for ADF serving personnel (of 29 years) to find a target for its almost fascist behaviour. The document that ABF claim is the basis of their assault on her they are unable to produce.
Against this background I find it completely disgusting and vomit inducing that this vile excuse for a government would have the gall to suggest cards and lapel pins. Virgin has just jumped without looking into the web of a desperate government move. The linked TND article below sums it up better than I could.
Yes, give them discounts, give them better benefits, give them REAL services but don't victimise and oppose them then cynically come out with this. I'm sorry but the VA move is just as cynical.
Yes Americans do this theatrical nonsense and their 'veterans' are littered around the streets of their major cities begging and homeless. My father was in the Army, I'd prefer he and other friends that were are dealt with in a decent and human manner rather than being offered what amounts to an empty gesture.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/nati...uge-scoundrel/
Last edited by AerialPerspective; 5th Nov 2018 at 14:10. Reason: core
It appears like a job from the outside but the reality is far from perception.
It used to be a career.
Maybe that why it's a bit of a shock when you don't
get (to) go to home at end of shift
Professional Amateur, what a load of ****. So Police don't sign up to risk their lives for the community the same as ADF members do? By the way many ADF members are not risking their lives as they are not in combat roles. You are a tosser to think that the military is all high and mighty above all else. I respect their service, but no more than any other profession.
Anything to stop university students saying delete all reference to WW1 and 2, or the word 'remembrance' and 'the fallen' and stating, in public, that they would be 'moved to physically rip off a person's poppy'. I see the OP's point of view but by drawing attention to veterans we can hopefully push these worldly wise, know-it-all eighteen year olds right back in their boxes, where they belong.
I’m an ADF member.
I think it’s hilarious that Virgin (and Scomo for that matter) think this is a priority when mental health support for veterans suffering from PTSD remains under funded, DVA argues the point to the literal cent with people with permanent injuries received in combat and at home through bad WH&S practices and more diggers are killing themselves every year than what we ever lost in Afghanistan.
While I’m sure Virgin means well, I don’t know anyone either past or present ADF that’s asked for it, or would want this over the government actually looking after the people they’ve assisted in breaking.
No one wants discounts, we don’t want your thanks (although I’m sure it’s appreicated), what everyone wants is for those who are suffering to be looked after and helped, even if it costs the government some money.
I think it’s hilarious that Virgin (and Scomo for that matter) think this is a priority when mental health support for veterans suffering from PTSD remains under funded, DVA argues the point to the literal cent with people with permanent injuries received in combat and at home through bad WH&S practices and more diggers are killing themselves every year than what we ever lost in Afghanistan.
While I’m sure Virgin means well, I don’t know anyone either past or present ADF that’s asked for it, or would want this over the government actually looking after the people they’ve assisted in breaking.
No one wants discounts, we don’t want your thanks (although I’m sure it’s appreicated), what everyone wants is for those who are suffering to be looked after and helped, even if it costs the government some money.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/nati...uge-scoundrel/
If you’d said ‘guilty of murdering locals’ I’d happily agree with you (except that then they’d hopefully be in prison and not boarding a 737). But ‘accused’? As far as I know, we still have something called ‘presumption of innocence’ here, and just being accused of something doesn’t automatically put you on the same moral level as a corrupt cop.
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While I respect your opinion - I think what you have said is exactly the problem. This government has obfuscated and fought every claim for compensation from every returned soldier or ADF person that has lodged one, in many cases destroying lives before finally accepting that it was some defence procedure or equipment or chemical that caused the damage.
Some have likened police and paramedics to those in the ADF; on the surface they appear to be similar however in the eyes of the law, which is where the distinction lies, they are very different. Ascribing deaths over a period of time as some sort of measure of similarity is naive at best.
When you sign up to the ADF the deal is that you no longer have a say when it comes to being placed in harms way. An emergency services person does not, when signing up make this same agreement, and whilst the numbers may be similar, their death whilst tragic was not part of the deal.
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OK I have to respond to that.
Bollocks.
Nobody signs up to the ADF to die. You sign up to perform roles, some of which may incur a higher chance of death like some civilian roles may incur.
You think a firefighter rocks up to a burning house and says “yeah looks a bit hot, I might sit this one out” without ramifications? I don’t think their career will be going too far in that case.
I’ve tried not to defame any military personnel on this thread but I’ve got to say some of the put downs that have been directed at civilian occupations, especially emergency services members on this thread are sickening.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Dr Dre you said you were leaving, please do and delete your mad ravings on this thread as you leave. The whole point you seem to have missed is that the Virgin option was voluntary to veterans, if they didn't want to be noticed they simply didn't make it known that they were veterans. And as for this little gem:
Maybe you should catch up with national and international news before you comment, the biggest offenders being students unions both here and in the UK.
And where do they exist outside of your own imagination, or a miniscule fringe element on some dark corner of the internet? Most veterans I know wouldn't want to be singled out to be used as political pawns.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was, loved your defence link where it says,
Can remember leading a flight of Hueys on an insertion where the brief gave me the distinct feeling that we were going to be lucky to survive. We had absolute crap rain down upon us, small arms, B40, air burst mortar, you name it. Another, benign insertion I though as I lead the formation again, landed and all hell broke loose in an ambush by a heavy weapons company, 25% of the troops wounded, 50% dead, all aircraft unflyable and sling loaded home by Chinook. While one of my crewmen escaped with an AK47 round in the neck and back he survived, I merely received one round in the back between the shoulder blades, thank God for armour plate. Perhaps you can tell us what we did wrong in the OH & S sphere.
A fire fighter did just that on TV news a few nights ago, they're brave, not stupid, they don't do suicidal stuff, occupants had died, going in would have extended the list.
However, at all times we will manage risk to ensure that when risks are taken they are understood, accounted for, and integrated into our plans and the way we operate.
You think a firefighter rocks up to a burning house and says “yeah looks a bit hot, I might sit this one out”
Traffic_Is_Er_Was, loved your defence link where it says,Can remember leading a flight of Hueys on an insertion where the brief gave me the distinct feeling that we were going to be lucky to survive. We had absolute crap rain down upon us, small arms, B40, air burst mortar, you name it. Another, benign insertion I though as I lead the formation again, landed and all hell broke loose in an ambush by a heavy weapons company, 25% of the troops wounded, 50% dead, all aircraft unflyable and sling loaded home by Chinook. While one of my crewmen escaped with an AK47 round in the neck and back he survived, I merely received one round in the back between the shoulder blades, thank God for armour plate. Perhaps you can tell us what we did wrong in the OH & S sphere.A fire fighter did just that on TV news a few nights ago, they're brave, not stupid, they don't do suicidal stuff, occupants had died, going in would have extended the list.
Megan, obviously in a war zone or combat situation, then OH&S goes out the window. I was responding to your assertion that OH&S does not apply to the military. For the 99.9% of the time you are not in combat, it does. It could be argued that the helmet on your head and the armour plate in your helicopter are OH&S in action.
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Zanthrus thanks for the rant and personal attack.
Moving on, in your fury to be the first to respond you completely missed my point.
Police do indeed accept risk when they sign up, not sure how you felt my position contradicted that. My whole point is about the law and the powers that these laws ascribe to the government. My point was not to argue who job is the most risky (as it is irrelevant), in fact I was very careful to stay away from this issue.
You stated ‘risk their lives for the community the same as ADF members do’, this is where you are wrong. The risk may be the same by way of deaths/injury etc but the laws that govern each occupation are very different meaning it is not the same. This being the very point I was making, not that emergency services are lesser beings or that the military is high and mighty…..rather they are just different (and its not me defining this difference, its parliament).
Dr Dre, Same point as above. It’s a matter of law and the application of that law. You are correct, ‘no body signs up to the ADF to die’, they do however hand over the control of that choice to the Government. This is where the distinction lays.
Read my point again fellas: ‘When you sign up to the ADF the deal is that you no longer have a say when it comes to being placed in harms way. An emergency services person does not, when signing up make this same agreement, and whilst the numbers may be similar, their death whilst tragic was not part of the deal.’
To be clear and back on topic, I wouldn't take the offer up, but hey if someone else wants to then go for it.
Yep, the skeptic in me knows Virgin didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. Its Corporate Social Responsibility 101; Do things which appear to be good for society....but only if it is good for our bottom line. People don't get pissy when Qantas buys Brazil nuts from Peruvian farmers and then puts a quasi add in the in-flight magazine explaining how they are doing it to support the farmers...... BS; its for Qantas' net benefit.
The backlash is actually a good thing, it shows that corporations can't take the piss when it comes to national symbols.
Moving on, in your fury to be the first to respond you completely missed my point.
Police do indeed accept risk when they sign up, not sure how you felt my position contradicted that. My whole point is about the law and the powers that these laws ascribe to the government. My point was not to argue who job is the most risky (as it is irrelevant), in fact I was very careful to stay away from this issue.
You stated ‘risk their lives for the community the same as ADF members do’, this is where you are wrong. The risk may be the same by way of deaths/injury etc but the laws that govern each occupation are very different meaning it is not the same. This being the very point I was making, not that emergency services are lesser beings or that the military is high and mighty…..rather they are just different (and its not me defining this difference, its parliament).
Dr Dre, Same point as above. It’s a matter of law and the application of that law. You are correct, ‘no body signs up to the ADF to die’, they do however hand over the control of that choice to the Government. This is where the distinction lays.
Read my point again fellas: ‘When you sign up to the ADF the deal is that you no longer have a say when it comes to being placed in harms way. An emergency services person does not, when signing up make this same agreement, and whilst the numbers may be similar, their death whilst tragic was not part of the deal.’
To be clear and back on topic, I wouldn't take the offer up, but hey if someone else wants to then go for it.
Yep, the skeptic in me knows Virgin didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. Its Corporate Social Responsibility 101; Do things which appear to be good for society....but only if it is good for our bottom line. People don't get pissy when Qantas buys Brazil nuts from Peruvian farmers and then puts a quasi add in the in-flight magazine explaining how they are doing it to support the farmers...... BS; its for Qantas' net benefit.
The backlash is actually a good thing, it shows that corporations can't take the piss when it comes to national symbols.
obviously in a war zone or combat situation, then OH&S goes out the window
No H & S rep ever seen on a battle front