United mayday into YSSY 4thOct
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United mayday into YSSY 4thOct
Media reporting - including https://www.theage.com.au/national/n...04-p507n5.html - reporting Mayday from United839 this morning due to low fuel.
Landing with less than final reserve I wouldn't have thought justified the response - but was it worse than that?
Landing with less than final reserve I wouldn't have thought justified the response - but was it worse than that?
Bottums Up
The AIP differs.
“EMERGENCY FUEL 12.1 The pilot-in-command shall declare a situation of fuel emergency by broadcasting MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY FUEL, when the calculated usable fuel predicted to be available upon landing at the nearest airport where a safe landing can be made is less than the planned fixed fuel reserve and as a result of this predicted fuel state, the aircraft requires immediate assis-tance.
NOTE: MAYDAY FUEL declaration is a distress message. A distress message is reported when the pilot in command has assessed the aircraft is threatened with grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.
12.2 It is a requirement in any case where an aircraft lands with less than its planned fixed fuel reserve that the pilot-in-command shall consider the event an immediately reportable matter and file the required report.”
“EMERGENCY FUEL 12.1 The pilot-in-command shall declare a situation of fuel emergency by broadcasting MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY FUEL, when the calculated usable fuel predicted to be available upon landing at the nearest airport where a safe landing can be made is less than the planned fixed fuel reserve and as a result of this predicted fuel state, the aircraft requires immediate assis-tance.
NOTE: MAYDAY FUEL declaration is a distress message. A distress message is reported when the pilot in command has assessed the aircraft is threatened with grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.
12.2 It is a requirement in any case where an aircraft lands with less than its planned fixed fuel reserve that the pilot-in-command shall consider the event an immediately reportable matter and file the required report.”
TimmyTee - A standard boilerplate PR response, I would think - you'd hardly expect a spokesman to say, "Yes, but for the grace of God, they nearly went down in flames . . . "
"Yes, but for the grace of God, they nearly went down in flames . . . "
So i guess their fuel policy is not to plan an altn but a re-clearance which begs the question did they fly past their re-clearance/divert point without the required fuel in the tanks.
Fly safe and play hard
Hoss
Fly safe and play hard
Hoss
I will have a stab
there was a message at some stage this morning to expect delays into Syd due ATC manning.
UA got the message and said we don’t have fuel for that MAV.
I see your message and raise you a Mayday.
judging by the tracking of the Aircraft into Sydney, there wasn’t a life or death fuel shortage....at least you would hope there would be better tracking if there was.
if this is the case there are going to be a lot of please explains going on right about now.
there was a message at some stage this morning to expect delays into Syd due ATC manning.
UA got the message and said we don’t have fuel for that MAV.
I see your message and raise you a Mayday.
judging by the tracking of the Aircraft into Sydney, there wasn’t a life or death fuel shortage....at least you would hope there would be better tracking if there was.
if this is the case there are going to be a lot of please explains going on right about now.
It is probably worth noting that American Airlines flight 73, also a B787-9 and also out of LAX to Sydney but about an hour behind UA839, diverted into Honolulu this morning. It could have been for a totally unrelated issue but it might have been for a similar emerging fuel issue due to stronger than forecast headwinds.
Then we get wonderful press releases like this as was reported in ABC online news and so accurate.
Safety regulator Air services Australia said no passengers were at risk during the landing and that the mayday call was triggered automatically because the plane's fuel gauge dropped below a certain level.
An Air services Australia spokesperson said instances like this were "not unusual".
"It doesn't mean you have no fuel left, and you have to land right away," she said.
"You still have a lot of fuel left."
Safety regulator Air services Australia said no passengers were at risk during the landing and that the mayday call was triggered automatically because the plane's fuel gauge dropped below a certain level.
An Air services Australia spokesperson said instances like this were "not unusual".
"It doesn't mean you have no fuel left, and you have to land right away," she said.
"You still have a lot of fuel left."
"It doesn't mean you have no fuel left, and you have to land right away," she said.
"You still have a lot of fuel left."
"You still have a lot of fuel left."
Its a slow news day down here today
They aren't changing the prime minister this week, so the media need somewhere else to put their breathless reporters.
Kudos to the crew for following their SOP's, and missing the local orphanage on the approach....
They aren't changing the prime minister this week, so the media need somewhere else to put their breathless reporters.
Kudos to the crew for following their SOP's, and missing the local orphanage on the approach....
There is now a substantial amount of traffic departing the West Coast (LAX & SFO) about the same time and heading south west across the Pacific.
With the development of more sophisticated flight planning, two nights ago there were probably 6 or more aircraft (QF94, UA98, QF12, NZ5, UA 839, VA?, DL5?) all trying to get FL320 to 340, all going along roughly the same track. The NZ flight was cleared initially to FL260 en-route to Dinty (wpt); not sure how long it took them to get something higher. Ourselves and UA98 were never more than 80 miles apart from LAX to MEL all night. Some of these flights branched off but then the SFO flights merge so it's not unusual now to be asked by Oakland, and later Nadi, centre when you can accept a higher, often non-standard level. The same thing happens as you approach East of Brisbane as everyone homes in on Sydney, whether overflying for Melbourne or as their destination.
I'm not surprised that UA839 may have chewed through a bit more fuel en-route, but I am surprised it was enough to leave them down to min reserves, knowing that they are arriving in Sydney as the curfew finishes and multiple aircraft will be looking to land at the same time. Maybe it's just a clever way to jump the queue….
With the development of more sophisticated flight planning, two nights ago there were probably 6 or more aircraft (QF94, UA98, QF12, NZ5, UA 839, VA?, DL5?) all trying to get FL320 to 340, all going along roughly the same track. The NZ flight was cleared initially to FL260 en-route to Dinty (wpt); not sure how long it took them to get something higher. Ourselves and UA98 were never more than 80 miles apart from LAX to MEL all night. Some of these flights branched off but then the SFO flights merge so it's not unusual now to be asked by Oakland, and later Nadi, centre when you can accept a higher, often non-standard level. The same thing happens as you approach East of Brisbane as everyone homes in on Sydney, whether overflying for Melbourne or as their destination.
I'm not surprised that UA839 may have chewed through a bit more fuel en-route, but I am surprised it was enough to leave them down to min reserves, knowing that they are arriving in Sydney as the curfew finishes and multiple aircraft will be looking to land at the same time. Maybe it's just a clever way to jump the queue….
Last edited by C441; 4th Oct 2018 at 05:16.
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Well, a few years ago a XXXX 747 was inbound to New York and after being told to hold soon declared "fuel emergency".Upon arrival at the gate the feds did a cockpit inspection and found they had lots of fuel so the Captain was barred from USA.He returned to NY quite soon afterwards with his new name........
It is probably worth noting that American Airlines flight 73, also a B787-9 and also out of LAX to Sydney but about an hour behind UA839, diverted into Honolulu this morning. It could have been for a totally unrelated issue but it might have been for a similar emerging fuel issue due to stronger than forecast headwinds.