Air Niugini 737 overun at Guam
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Pilot error may be the initial blame... but at the core of this is MANAGEMENT ERROR!!
Both of the latest two incidents can be put down to the Management group of PX. I can assure you the pilots of the Dash 8 in Mendi only went there once Op’s (their management) gave them the clearance to fly there. PX would often delay/cancel flights to areas of civil unrest and it was only once management had given the thumbs up to return would the pilots go, once the management decided the risk was at a manageable level. Except on this instance they got it wrong.
As for the pilots of PXE in Chuuk. Yes they were sitting up the front last Friday. But ever since the PX Management decided to restructure the pilot conditions in 2014, a huge amount of experience within their pilots ranks left PX for better jobs.
The number of resignations since 1st January 2015 has clicked over 50% of the pilot group at that time. Imagine QF, VA, CX, BA loosing half of their pilots in such a short time frame.
In the environment that PX operates, this is a huge hit.
Some have forecasted an accident like this occurring.
Both of the latest two incidents can be put down to the Management group of PX. I can assure you the pilots of the Dash 8 in Mendi only went there once Op’s (their management) gave them the clearance to fly there. PX would often delay/cancel flights to areas of civil unrest and it was only once management had given the thumbs up to return would the pilots go, once the management decided the risk was at a manageable level. Except on this instance they got it wrong.
As for the pilots of PXE in Chuuk. Yes they were sitting up the front last Friday. But ever since the PX Management decided to restructure the pilot conditions in 2014, a huge amount of experience within their pilots ranks left PX for better jobs.
The number of resignations since 1st January 2015 has clicked over 50% of the pilot group at that time. Imagine QF, VA, CX, BA loosing half of their pilots in such a short time frame.
In the environment that PX operates, this is a huge hit.
Some have forecasted an accident like this occurring.
Last edited by ARPs; 5th Oct 2018 at 00:15.
ARPs...
Good response! 
However, if you are referring to the Mendi 'event', were the passengers and crew onboard the aircraft when it was torched? Because if not then I don't think it can be considered an accident under the definition of accident in ICAO Annex 13:
Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which, in the case of a manned aircraft, takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked...
So let's all agree to disagree about the Mendi 'event' and concentrate on the recent 737 accident.
Pilot error may be the initial blame... but at the core of this is MANAGEMENT ERROR!!
However, if you are referring to the Mendi 'event', were the passengers and crew onboard the aircraft when it was torched? Because if not then I don't think it can be considered an accident under the definition of accident in ICAO Annex 13:
Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which, in the case of a manned aircraft, takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked...
So let's all agree to disagree about the Mendi 'event' and concentrate on the recent 737 accident.
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ARPs...
Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which, in the case of a manned aircraft, takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked...
So let's all agree to disagree about the Mendi 'event' and concentrate on the recent 737 accident.
Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which, in the case of a manned aircraft, takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked...
So let's all agree to disagree about the Mendi 'event' and concentrate on the recent 737 accident.
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"Management Error", Nail on the head there ARPS. Didn't the FOM ,@ that time famously say: "We don't need Experienced pilots, we've got automated aircraft" ( or something to that effect). Hows that working out? Very good chance the Chuuk 73 crew were "new" to type &/or FSM/wet season ops.Might be more 'cheese holes" lining up for this accident than usual.
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tripleapidgeon….
Original statement was:
My bolding.
Clearly your definition of a decade differs from mine if you are including events prior to 2009.
I'm in no way defending Air Niugini (or LINK which was the operator of the Mendi aircraft), but trying to pin pilot error on the Mendi 'event' is far fetched. Probably also the landing gear event at Lae and the Mount Hagen mercury leak event.
Anyway, back to the 737 event...………….
Original statement was:
My bolding.
Clearly your definition of a decade differs from mine if you are including events prior to 2009.
I'm in no way defending Air Niugini (or LINK which was the operator of the Mendi aircraft), but trying to pin pilot error on the Mendi 'event' is far fetched. Probably also the landing gear event at Lae and the Mount Hagen mercury leak event.
Anyway, back to the 737 event...………….
However the word hull losses has been thrown around and by definition those are the ones PX have had.
They certainly have not lost 5 hulls in the past decade which was the point I was trying to highlight.
I note that the government of the FSM has been quoted in the press as saying that they consulting with US Authorities re the investigation into the accident at Chuuk . One can only live in hope that a proper investigation is carried out Not a white wash and cover up .
Last edited by tripelapidgeon; 5th Oct 2018 at 02:14.
What really frustrates me reading this thread is the fact that some of you posting here are obviously current and ex employees of the above mentioned company.
ICAO Doc 9756 Manual of Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigation, Part IV Reporting:
3.2.2 The determination of causes should be based on a thorough, impartial and objective analysis of all the available evidence. Any condition, act or circumstance that was a causal factor in the accident should be clearly identified. Seen together, the causes should present a picture of all the reasons why the accident occurred. The list of causes should include both the immediate causes and the deeper or systemic causes.
I think that might have been what ARPs was getting at
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Whitewash and Coverup
Watch this space as to who will be the lead investigator of this accident.
Not much hope for a proper impartial report I am afraid.
Money, and politics talk.
For the sake of the long suffering travelling public and the remaining loyal employees of PX I hope the information is only a red herring but somehow I doubt it.
Not much hope for a proper impartial report I am afraid.
Money, and politics talk.
For the sake of the long suffering travelling public and the remaining loyal employees of PX I hope the information is only a red herring but somehow I doubt it.
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ASN Uppdate
The latest update from Aviation Safety Network (07 Oct.) Metar @ 23:40Z (Approx. time of Arrival) PTKK 040/07 3sm SHRA B/000 OVC 008CB 26C 29.73 . . . . . . "PX state : 'A/C landed short of RWY" (ie R04?) . "Other reports suggest A/C overshot the RWY" (ie R22/NDB Approach ??) "* *The position of the A/C relative to the runway suggests the O/run to be a more plausible scenario". If a jump-seating engineer has a video,that would be "Very Handy" for the Investigators!!
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So: there were passengers on board, crew on board, witnesses on the ground and possibly a qualified person running the flight service?? Yet we still don’t know whether it was an undershoot or an overrun?!?
True!
Except passenger reports implied an over run. (Assuming the good doctor knows his port from his starboard!!)
As impossible as it may be, I’m starting to think that even the hapless crew had no idea whether it was an undershoot or otherwise.
The alleged video of the approach (if it exists) will make interesting viewing and will be a wonderful training tool in the future.
Except passenger reports implied an over run. (Assuming the good doctor knows his port from his starboard!!)
As impossible as it may be, I’m starting to think that even the hapless crew had no idea whether it was an undershoot or otherwise.
The alleged video of the approach (if it exists) will make interesting viewing and will be a wonderful training tool in the future.