Par Avion to Train AirAsia Pilot Cadets
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Par Avion to Train AirAsia Pilot Cadets
No links as yet but Tasmanian-owned Par Avion has been approved by the Malaysian Civil Aviation Authority to operate a pilot training school for AirAsia pilot cadets. The airline plans to send up to 75 cadets a year to Tasmania with the cadets being trained at Cambridge & possibly Devonport Airport.
Good for Par Avion,
Good for Par Avion,
The issue is training them to Western standards then going back home to a culture of third world standards where they pull circuit breakers mid flight and reset things over and over to avoid maintenance. Once the eyes have seen it there is no going back.
then going back home to a culture of third world standards
All the more reason to train them to Western standards.
In time and with enough exposure we can mould young minds to challenge the old guard, culture notwithstanding.
A few failures along the way is to be expected; we should not hesitate to send those home.
But generally young Asians are successful in many disciplines, and we all know flying is hardly brain surgery.
So there is no reason to believe we can’t teach them to be safe pilots.
In time and with enough exposure we can mould young minds to challenge the old guard, culture notwithstanding.
A few failures along the way is to be expected; we should not hesitate to send those home.
But generally young Asians are successful in many disciplines, and we all know flying is hardly brain surgery.
So there is no reason to believe we can’t teach them to be safe pilots.
We can teach them high standards and high levels of airmanship. That’s where it ends for some. Chinese and Singaporean carriers have largely run successful cadet programs, that are backed up by quality and rigorous check and training systems back home.
Then you’ve got the circus operators that live and breathe coverups, corruption, and just plain stupidity. I’ll leave it to your imagination who these are.
Then you’ve got the circus operators that live and breathe coverups, corruption, and just plain stupidity. I’ll leave it to your imagination who these are.
We can teach them high standards and high levels of airmanship. That’s where it ends for some. Chinese and Singaporean carriers have largely run successful cadet programs, that are backed up by quality and rigorous check and training systems back home.
Then you’ve got the circus operators that live and breathe coverups, corruption, and just plain stupidity. I’ll leave it to your imagination who these are.
Then you’ve got the circus operators that live and breathe coverups, corruption, and just plain stupidity. I’ll leave it to your imagination who these are.
But I agree with Mach e Avelli, those low cost third world carriers aren’t going anywhere. Air Asia isn’t going to stop flying just because Australians decide not to train their pilots. They’ll just set up a flying school elsewhere and their cadets will probably not get a thorough dose of airmanship instilled into them at that early ab initio stage. And it deprives Australians here of jobs in flight training, especially in our most struggling state economically. How anyone could comment on this news in a negative way is beyond me?
If Pat Avion actually have won a contract to train the pilots, that is absolutely sensational, not only for the company, but also for Tasmania.
i just hope they can employ and retain enough suitabley qualified instructors.
I wish I still lived in Tasmania, I would certainly throw my hat in the ring to help out.
Tall poppies, pull you headin and go away. 🤬
i just hope they can employ and retain enough suitabley qualified instructors.
I wish I still lived in Tasmania, I would certainly throw my hat in the ring to help out.
Tall poppies, pull you headin and go away. 🤬
I would dispute that, based on my personal experience with two major Chinese groups, both from the level of ab nitio training, and check and training within the parent airline. Being, in a past life, a HCRPT Check and Trainer, I know rigorous training standards when I see them.
Indeed, one of the two has been closely associated with Lufthansa for both flying and maintenance standards, the other with US carriers and others, including Qantas. The Chinese, aviation wise, do not have a "we know best" superiority complex, like Dick Smith, they will take the best from anywhere.
China had long had a policy of sending the best and brightest to western educational institutions, this is not limited to aircrew. For airlines, China Southern was the first, close to forty years ago.
In one specific instance, an engineering outfit with aviation and other interests, over 70% of the staff had tertiary qualifications, of those about a further 60% had post graduate degrees, almost all from outside China.The CEO had a PhD from MIT, those don't come on the top of a Corn Flakes packet. Most of the people I was dealing with on this project also had spent years working outside China. The GMs son was just completing an accountancy degree at ANU during our project.
This company's probably biggest problem will be finding enough competent instructors to achieve the standards the locals will demand.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Where it counts, including flight operations, the CAACRs mirror the FAA.
Leadsled I flew for a Chinese career (not training them on light aircraft) over 4 years and you are full of it
I can only speak from experience, which did not include me personally training them in light aircraft, that is your assumption, but our project involved wide body HCRPT.
I have no experience of some of the smaller and more recent airlines, but I would be very happy if I thought current airline senior management in Australia had the same focus on risk minimisation, ie "safety"., as those, with whom I was involved in China -- two of the "big four".
And, at the time, we even had a Vice-Minister, later Minister for Civil Aviation who was a current airline pilot (on B777) . That is not going to happen here any time soon, even if we did have one airline pilot Commonwealth politician many years ago.
Why did you only stay four years?? Seem like it was not a happy experience??
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 15th Sep 2018 at 08:40.
I did ab initio training alongside Chinese Airline sponsored cadets.
I can tell you they aren't the brightest and the best. Airline pilot isn't a prestigious job in China. All of the cadets told me that in the last year of their engineering degrees (all studying in China) they sit aptitude tests and pretty much get told what jobs they are going to be placed in. None of them wanted to be pilots.
I can also tell you now they weren't held to the same standards as local students. Not even close. If they were they would all fail.
If we are too tough on them they find a place that will pass them.
Universities are they same. The Chinese students pay big fees so they always pass. Just because you study in a Western country doesn't mean you are at the same standard as local students in that country.
Let's not kid ourselves.
I can tell you they aren't the brightest and the best. Airline pilot isn't a prestigious job in China. All of the cadets told me that in the last year of their engineering degrees (all studying in China) they sit aptitude tests and pretty much get told what jobs they are going to be placed in. None of them wanted to be pilots.
I can also tell you now they weren't held to the same standards as local students. Not even close. If they were they would all fail.
If we are too tough on them they find a place that will pass them.
Universities are they same. The Chinese students pay big fees so they always pass. Just because you study in a Western country doesn't mean you are at the same standard as local students in that country.
Let's not kid ourselves.
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I can tell you they aren't the brightest and the best. Airline pilot isn't a prestigious job in China. All of the cadets told me that in the last year of their engineering degrees (all studying in China) they sit aptitude tests and pretty much get told what jobs they are going to be placed in. None of them wanted to be pilots.
Pilotchute’s experience mirrors my own. For a while I was involved in jet transition training for a large Chinese Airline. There was no way most of the cadets would have reached normal Aussie standards in the time allocated.The CAAC required 20 hours of exposure to multi crew jet operations. There was no pass/fail grading, merely boxes to be ticked to state that the student had been instructed in particular sequences. We gave them a basic systems course on the aircraft, then a quckie co pilot endorsement (no simulator), then they flew from the RHS on routes of the instructor’s choosing.
The Chinese management were very dollar conscious and watched the hours flown. 15 minutes under the 20 hours was desirable. 15 minutes over meant a discussion with the boss to explain that ATC or weather got in the way. That the student needed a bit more time was not accepted as a reason.
For such a large airline the whole operation was a real shoe-string affair. Poor food, cramped living quarters, pocket money sent from China was held by the boss and doled out in such small amounts the cadets could only afford a bus ticket and a hamburger once a week. TV was streamed in from China, so they had little chance to improve their English by watching subversive Western programs.
Little wonder that most of these poor buggers were not motivated to be pilots.
Of course Malaysia is not China, so for Par Avion’s sake we should hope that there is less interference with standards.
It would be very helpful if Australian pilot training schools could play a part in cadet selection processes, then have complete control of campus life for the duration of their stay here. It is not as if in countries with such large populations the talent does not exist. It would be arrogant of us to think otherwise.
The Chinese management were very dollar conscious and watched the hours flown. 15 minutes under the 20 hours was desirable. 15 minutes over meant a discussion with the boss to explain that ATC or weather got in the way. That the student needed a bit more time was not accepted as a reason.
For such a large airline the whole operation was a real shoe-string affair. Poor food, cramped living quarters, pocket money sent from China was held by the boss and doled out in such small amounts the cadets could only afford a bus ticket and a hamburger once a week. TV was streamed in from China, so they had little chance to improve their English by watching subversive Western programs.
Little wonder that most of these poor buggers were not motivated to be pilots.
Of course Malaysia is not China, so for Par Avion’s sake we should hope that there is less interference with standards.
It would be very helpful if Australian pilot training schools could play a part in cadet selection processes, then have complete control of campus life for the duration of their stay here. It is not as if in countries with such large populations the talent does not exist. It would be arrogant of us to think otherwise.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 15th Sep 2018 at 21:55.
Folks,
One thing I would agree with, that being a pilot in China in not a highly regarded job, these days.
But if you bothered to read what I actually wrote, re. brightest and best, I was not referring to pilots, but university graduates already destined for bigger and better career prospects.
Whatever you think of the CCP Government, you have to give them one thing, they plan and act for the long term.
Tootle pip!!
One thing I would agree with, that being a pilot in China in not a highly regarded job, these days.
But if you bothered to read what I actually wrote, re. brightest and best, I was not referring to pilots, but university graduates already destined for bigger and better career prospects.
Whatever you think of the CCP Government, you have to give them one thing, they plan and act for the long term.
Tootle pip!!
What did you have in mind??
Have been using Lenovo computers for years, long post IBM, 100% reliability for more than 20 years.
Likewise phones, and TV etc.
Industrially I could list a long line of items where Made in PRC quality and durability are not in question.
Closer to aviation, do you know where the preferred 6 axis of motion simulator platforms come from and
Equal to the best visual systems.
Consumer junk is consumer junk, wherever it is made, do you buy a lot of consumer junk.
Tootle pip!!