Reg 206 (1) C = FAR Part 135?
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Reg 206 (1) C = FAR Part 135?
Has anybody had hours as PIC hours under CAR 206 (1) recognised as equivalent to FAR Part 135 for the purpose of credit toward the 1,000 required for PIC under Part 121?
Doesn’t work that way. FAA is very prescriptive and hours must be flown under an FAA certificate for them to count for uograde.
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Flying spike,
That doesn't sound right to me, based on experience, some time ago.
FAA recognised ALL my hours, not just flying on commercial operations, but this was some time ago.
The answer you have got, so far, implies that only hours flown on an FAA license count for the purposes of an ATR, or flying as a co-pilot on an RPT operation.
Check with the FAA is the only real answer.
Tootle pip!!
That doesn't sound right to me, based on experience, some time ago.
FAA recognised ALL my hours, not just flying on commercial operations, but this was some time ago.
The answer you have got, so far, implies that only hours flown on an FAA license count for the purposes of an ATR, or flying as a co-pilot on an RPT operation.
Check with the FAA is the only real answer.
Tootle pip!!
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This is the relevant CFR to which this regulation applies. I was also told by an FAA check airman that the hours which applies to this regulation had to be accrued under the FAA license. The key phrase in the regs below is 'operations under this part/chapter' which I assume means 'under an FAA license'.
14 CFR 121.436 - Pilot Qualification: Certificates and experience requirements.
§ 121.436 Pilot Qualification: Certificates and experience requirements.
(a) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as pilot in command of an aircraft (or as second in command of an aircraft in a flag or supplemental operation that requires three or more pilots) unless the pilot:
(b) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as second in command unless the pilot holds an airline transport pilot certificate and an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown. A second-in-command type rating obtained under § 61.55 does not satisfy the requirements of this section.
(c) For the purpose of satisfying the flight hour requirement in paragraph (a)(3) of this section, a pilot may credit 500 hours of military flight time obtained as pilot in command of a multiengine turbine-powered, fixed-wing airplane in an operation requiring more than one pilot.
(d) Compliance with the requirements of this section is required by August 1, 2013. However, for those pilots who are employed as second in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the type rating requirement in paragraph (b) of this section is not required until January 1, 2016.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436
14 CFR 121.436 - Pilot Qualification: Certificates and experience requirements.
§ 121.436 Pilot Qualification: Certificates and experience requirements.
(a) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as pilot in command of an aircraft (or as second in command of an aircraft in a flag or supplemental operation that requires three or more pilots) unless the pilot:
(1) Holds an airline transport pilot certificate not subject to the limitations in § 61.167 of this chapter;
(2) Holds an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown; and
(3) If serving as pilot in command in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under § 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under § 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this paragraph (a)(3) is not required.
(2) Holds an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown; and
(3) If serving as pilot in command in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under § 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under § 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this paragraph (a)(3) is not required.
(b) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as second in command unless the pilot holds an airline transport pilot certificate and an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown. A second-in-command type rating obtained under § 61.55 does not satisfy the requirements of this section.
(c) For the purpose of satisfying the flight hour requirement in paragraph (a)(3) of this section, a pilot may credit 500 hours of military flight time obtained as pilot in command of a multiengine turbine-powered, fixed-wing airplane in an operation requiring more than one pilot.
(d) Compliance with the requirements of this section is required by August 1, 2013. However, for those pilots who are employed as second in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the type rating requirement in paragraph (b) of this section is not required until January 1, 2016.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436
If serving as pilot in command in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part
means? It’s literal. It’s refering to the part/subsection of the FAR’s, not some other countries regs.
i don’t see how you can comprehend it any other way.
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It would be nice if it was recognised but I agree that 12 or so months in the right seat would be better value than a couple of thousand hours Chieftain I did years ago. Thanks guys
As I said before, check with a convenient FISDO, if possible. Also check with any prospective employer.
In recognition of foreign experience, the practical answer is what FAA will recognise as satisfying the reg. quoted above, the reg. is not new.
Quite a number of Australian pilots, in recent years, have taken up employment with Regional/Commuter carriers in US based on foreign experience verified to the satisfaction of FAA. Several have actually sent recruiters to Australia. If nil non- US hours counted, such programs would not work.
Those I know have had to do the ATR examinations, have a Class I medical, and pass a (in our terms) APC/IPC, plus all the usual security clearances and holding the appropriate visa/green card. FAA-wise, the result is the issue of a ATR/Multi/Land/Instrument set of paperwork and license.
The progress from the RHS to command has been rapid, such is the turnover on seniority lists of small carriers.
Tootle pip!!
PS1: The people I have personally known have all had at least 1500 hr multi command time, not just 1500 hr. total or command.
PS: All RPT "commuter" operations in the US work under Part 121. Part 135 is (almost) exclusively "air taxi".
Last edited by LeadSled; 13th Sep 2018 at 07:41. Reason: PS 1&2 added
Flying Spike,,
As I said before, check with a convenient FISDO, if possible. Also check with any prospective employer.
In recognition of foreign experience, the practical answer is what FAA will recognise as satisfying the reg. quoted above, the reg. is not new.
Quite a number of Australian pilots, in recent years, have taken up employment with Regional/Commuter carriers in US based on foreign experience verified to the satisfaction of FAA. Several have actually sent recruiters to Australia. If nil non- US hours counted, such programs would not work.
Those I know have had to do the ATR examinations, have a Class I medical, and pass a (in our terms) APC/IPC, plus all the usual security clearances and holding the appropriate visa/green card. FAA-wise, the result is the issue of a ATR/Multi/Land/Instrument set of paperwork and license.
The progress from the RHS to command has been rapid, such is the turnover on seniority lists of small carriers.
Tootle pip!!
PS1: The people I have personally known have all had at least 1500 hr multi command time, not just 1500 hr. total or command.
PS: All RPT "commuter" operations in the US work under Part 121. Part 135 is (almost) exclusively "air taxi".
As I said before, check with a convenient FISDO, if possible. Also check with any prospective employer.
In recognition of foreign experience, the practical answer is what FAA will recognise as satisfying the reg. quoted above, the reg. is not new.
Quite a number of Australian pilots, in recent years, have taken up employment with Regional/Commuter carriers in US based on foreign experience verified to the satisfaction of FAA. Several have actually sent recruiters to Australia. If nil non- US hours counted, such programs would not work.
Those I know have had to do the ATR examinations, have a Class I medical, and pass a (in our terms) APC/IPC, plus all the usual security clearances and holding the appropriate visa/green card. FAA-wise, the result is the issue of a ATR/Multi/Land/Instrument set of paperwork and license.
The progress from the RHS to command has been rapid, such is the turnover on seniority lists of small carriers.
Tootle pip!!
PS1: The people I have personally known have all had at least 1500 hr multi command time, not just 1500 hr. total or command.
PS: All RPT "commuter" operations in the US work under Part 121. Part 135 is (almost) exclusively "air taxi".
Most airlines know this as they have a POI that tells them. I had 2 guys in my class a couple years ago with thousands of hours flying a range of Boeing aircraft and were told immediate upgrades but unfortunately the FAA ruled otherwise.
Easy to get though - 13-14 months once IOE starts. Best of luck!
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I think you're talking about something different. As you have said, all your hours accumulated outside of the USA will be recognised there in the USA. But, the requirement of 1000hrs Part 121 time HAS to be under FAR Part 121 ie. A carrier flying 121 under a FAA issued AOC.
Most airlines know this as they have a POI that tells them. I had 2 guys in my class a couple years ago with thousands of hours flying a range of Boeing aircraft and were told immediate upgrades but unfortunately the FAA ruled otherwise.
Easy to get though - 13-14 months once IOE starts. Best of luck!
Flying Spike,,
As I said before, check with a convenient FISDO, if possible. Also check with any prospective employer.
In recognition of foreign experience, the practical answer is what FAA will recognise as satisfying the reg. quoted above, the reg. is not new.
Quite a number of Australian pilots, in recent years, have taken up employment with Regional/Commuter carriers in US based on foreign experience verified to the satisfaction of FAA. Several have actually sent recruiters to Australia. If nil non- US hours counted, such programs would not work.
Those I know have had to do the ATR examinations, have a Class I medical, and pass a (in our terms) APC/IPC, plus all the usual security clearances and holding the appropriate visa/green card. FAA-wise, the result is the issue of a ATR/Multi/Land/Instrument set of paperwork and license.
The progress from the RHS to command has been rapid, such is the turnover on seniority lists of small carriers.
Tootle pip!!
PS1: The people I have personally known have all had at least 1500 hr multi command time, not just 1500 hr. total or command.
PS: All RPT "commuter" operations in the US work under Part 121. Part 135 is (almost) exclusively "air taxi".
As I said before, check with a convenient FISDO, if possible. Also check with any prospective employer.
In recognition of foreign experience, the practical answer is what FAA will recognise as satisfying the reg. quoted above, the reg. is not new.
Quite a number of Australian pilots, in recent years, have taken up employment with Regional/Commuter carriers in US based on foreign experience verified to the satisfaction of FAA. Several have actually sent recruiters to Australia. If nil non- US hours counted, such programs would not work.
Those I know have had to do the ATR examinations, have a Class I medical, and pass a (in our terms) APC/IPC, plus all the usual security clearances and holding the appropriate visa/green card. FAA-wise, the result is the issue of a ATR/Multi/Land/Instrument set of paperwork and license.
The progress from the RHS to command has been rapid, such is the turnover on seniority lists of small carriers.
Tootle pip!!
PS1: The people I have personally known have all had at least 1500 hr multi command time, not just 1500 hr. total or command.
PS: All RPT "commuter" operations in the US work under Part 121. Part 135 is (almost) exclusively "air taxi".
Spike maybe you should actually start at the airline first before worrying about a command ? I have seen a lot of older pilots join my airline (US regional) in the last year who have washed out in training, they just couldn't keep up. To suggest that some chieftain time will enable you a quick jet command upgrade is ludicrous, upgrade times are at about 12-18 months now anyway so it's not a long wait. The regs are black and white, you need 1000 hours in the right hand seat under part 121 operations before you are eligible to make the move to the LHS.
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Spike maybe you should actually start at the airline first before worrying about a command ? I have seen a lot of older pilots join my airline (US regional) in the last year who have washed out in training, they just couldn't keep up. To suggest that some chieftain time will enable you a quick jet command upgrade is ludicrous, upgrade times are at about 12-18 months now anyway so it's not a long wait. The regs are black and white, you need 1000 hours in the right hand seat under part 121 operations before you are eligible to make the move to the LHS.
The regs Are black and white but there is als a bit of grey that you have neglected to cite and that is the ability to use part 135 PIC time also to go towards the 1000 hours. (Also in my posts, and an interpretation attached). My concern is that, as supply shrinks, there will be a push to have pilots upgrade before they are ready.
I have no illusion that it will not be a steep learning curve for me, but I relish the challenge.
Gee, thanks power, I have never made the contention the Chieftain time will enable me to get a quick jet command. If you read ny posts you will see that I have commented that I see 1000 hours in the right seat to be a better grounding for upgrade.
The regs Are black and white but there is als a bit of grey that you have neglected to cite and that is the ability to use part 135 PIC time also to go towards the 1000 hours. (Also in my posts, and an interpretation attached). My concern is that, as supply shrinks, there will be a push to have pilots upgrade before they are ready.
I have no illusion that it will not be a steep learning curve for me, but I relish the challenge.
Not to mention the regs are hardly grey at all. They are very black and white and stipulate what Part 135 flying can and can’t be counted.
havic, stillcallozhome,
Agreed, I was looking more broadly, not at the specific 1000h
Just a guess, but given the severity of the pilot shortage, and the number of "commuter" aircraft backed against the fence, I would be most surprised if there were not a few FAA concessions floating around.
Tootle pip!!
Agreed, I was looking more broadly, not at the specific 1000h
Just a guess, but given the severity of the pilot shortage, and the number of "commuter" aircraft backed against the fence, I would be most surprised if there were not a few FAA concessions floating around.
Tootle pip!!
havic, stillcallozhome,
Agreed, I was looking more broadly, not at the specific 1000h
Just a guess, but given the severity of the pilot shortage, and the number of "commuter" aircraft backed against the fence, I would be most surprised if there were not a few FAA concessions floating around.
Tootle pip!!
Agreed, I was looking more broadly, not at the specific 1000h
Just a guess, but given the severity of the pilot shortage, and the number of "commuter" aircraft backed against the fence, I would be most surprised if there were not a few FAA concessions floating around.
Tootle pip!!
Havick,
Given the very broad rule-making (and breaking via determinations) powers of the Administrator, and based on many years experience, I wouldn't bet on it.
After all, this whole rule only came about as a result of political pressure, not the usual rule-making process.
Tootle pip!!
Given the very broad rule-making (and breaking via determinations) powers of the Administrator, and based on many years experience, I wouldn't bet on it.
After all, this whole rule only came about as a result of political pressure, not the usual rule-making process.
Tootle pip!!
