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Union representation let down

Old 10th Oct 2018, 21:29
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The Qantas Safety case documents FOI are still available on the CASA website.
Qantas 2011 Safety Case Archived version.

It looks like CASA had concerns about restarting the operation (McCormick email "Safety Case Version 2" 03:38 on Monday 31 October 2011).
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 22:00
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Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher
The Qantas Safety case documents FOI are still available on the CASA website.
Qantas 2011 Safety Case Archived version.

It looks like CASA had concerns about restarting the operation (McCormick email "Safety Case Version 2" 03:38 on Monday 31 October 2011).
The question that lingers for many is precisely why a grounding with no announced job losses required a safety case, when an announcement of 5,000 job losses from safety critical areas did not?

Unions had been bracing for massive cuts at the airline for weeks, which they have been expecting to include engineers and pilots among the redundancies.Qantas has for years steered clear of making redundant its large workforce of pilots – including about 2600 who fly long-haul aircraft – preferring to allow them to take unpaid leave or seek time out to work for other airlines.
Regulatory capture?
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 23:53
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What happened to the AFAP?
A very good question!! It may have even been my reason for starting this thread.
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Old 10th Oct 2018, 23:54
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Originally Posted by wombat watcher



yes
AJ decided to invoke the lockout and announce it on the Saturday morning having gotten the AGM out of the wayearlier in the week
he had been planning it as a contingency for a while
He grounded the airline effective after his announcement
the guvmint was expected to refer the matter for compulsory mediation under the IR laws as a matter of public interest relatively quickly.
this was delayed until late on the saturday night
the lockout was due to come into force effective Sunday or Monday (I can’t recall)
the FWC convened late Saturday night and sat until the early hours of Sunday morning and ruled for compulsory mediation and for the lockout to be voided
the prime targets were the TWU and the LAME’s. Pilots got caught up in the action
much to Qf surprise CASA kept the airline grounded until Qf could make a case that safety wasn’t compromised by the emotional and other issues generated by the grounding and the looming lockout
it took until the Tuesday or Wednesday before this could be achieved and normal operations resumed
it was AJ who initially grounded the airline and then CASA who kept it grounded
Yes pilots received letters advising of the lockout, yes pilots were told not to report for work but no Qf pilot was actually locked out.
Thank you. I’d suggest it was rather disingenuous to claim that CASA grounded the airline prior to the lockout commencing, when the grounding was very much Alan’s own work (irrespective of whether CASA then prolonged the grounding a little longer than Alan expected). You’re right that no QF pilot was actually locked out, but under the circumstances, being grounded due to industrial action, versus being locked out due to industrial action, amounted to little more than semantics.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 00:38
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Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard


Thank you. I’d suggest it was rather disingenuous to claim that CASA grounded the airline prior to the lockout commencing, when the grounding was very much Alan’s own work (irrespective of whether CASA then prolonged the grounding a little longer than Alan expected). You’re right that no QF pilot was actually locked out, but under the circumstances, being grounded due to industrial action, versus being locked out due to industrial action, amounted to little more than semantics.







on the contrary.
a lot of Qf pilots believe they were locked out and are seriously affronted by that.
if they say they are affronted because they were threatened with being locked out or that they are affronted because they were served with papers notifying a lockout, they are on solid ground.
BUT to say they were actualy locked out is not correct which was my original point.
Let’s call a spade a spade. AJ took a dramatic step and grounded the airline. It was his only option other than to agree to union demands under FWC laws. It didn’t totally go the way he planned.
The result was 3 troublesome unions neutered. 3 EBA imposed arbitrations that couldn’t be regarded as wins for any group.
SP and TS rode off into the sunset to lick their wounds.Both rarely seen on TV for the past six years wheras they were always on the news before criticising everything Qf did.
No significant successful opposition to the mass redundancies especially with the Engineering department and to a lesser extent the TWU areas. All pilot redundancies were voluntary.
6 years have passed and AJ has had no union trouble from the TWU, AALEA or AIPA or for that matter from any other union.
big price to pay in the grounding.
was it worth it?
only he knows?

Last edited by wombat watcher; 11th Oct 2018 at 05:55.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 16:36
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Are you guys still going on about that?
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 18:19
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Scoob was locked out in Hong Kong!! And I think he had to pax himself home .... But that was a few weeks before everyone else was grounded.
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