Have airline pilots been shortchanged on sick leave entitlements?
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Have airline pilots been shortchanged on sick leave entitlements?
https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...13-p4zx5v.html
Sources inside Qantas suggest the Short Haul pilots have been shortchanged for a number of years, with both the responsible pilot union and company aware. Are other airline pilots short changed too?
With a legal finding supporting the incorrect calculation what will the union responsible for Qantas pilots do?
The Fair Work Commission recently pulled the rug on the standard practise employers used of providing an average of 76 hours of paid leave based on the average 7.6-hour work day and the national minimum standard of 10 days of sick leave a year.
With a legal finding supporting the incorrect calculation what will the union responsible for Qantas pilots do?
Non rat employee, but was recently asked to supply a medical certificate for an URTI day.
Likewise they will no longer accept a medical certificate written by a pharmacy, physiotherapist etc.
Mentioned this to my GP after a game of tennis, he said it was an easy fix do you want a certificate for 5 or 7 day’s, a 14 day one would involve a nice bottle of red.
Likewise they will no longer accept a medical certificate written by a pharmacy, physiotherapist etc.
Mentioned this to my GP after a game of tennis, he said it was an easy fix do you want a certificate for 5 or 7 day’s, a 14 day one would involve a nice bottle of red.
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Non rat employee, but was recently asked to supply a medical certificate for an URTI day.
Likewise they will no longer accept a medical certificate written by a pharmacy, physiotherapist etc.
Mentioned this to my GP after a game of tennis, he said it was an easy fix do you want a certificate for 5 or 7 day’s, a 14 day one would involve a nice bottle of red.
Likewise they will no longer accept a medical certificate written by a pharmacy, physiotherapist etc.
Mentioned this to my GP after a game of tennis, he said it was an easy fix do you want a certificate for 5 or 7 day’s, a 14 day one would involve a nice bottle of red.
Effectively whilst the pilot is 'paid' a trip credit for example the equivalent of 6 hours flying the TOD might be say 11 hours.
Qantas have 'decided' that they will deduct 11 hours from the 76 hours. Therefore were the pilot to fall sick on bigger duty days their ANNUAL sick leave quotient is expended in around six or seven days not 10.
Qantas it would seem owe their pilots a substantial amount of compensation.
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From a source at QF.
Effectively whilst the pilot is 'paid' a trip credit for example the equivalent of 6 hours flying the TOD might be say 11 hours.
Qantas have 'decided' that they will deduct 11 hours from the 76 hours. Therefore were the pilot to fall sick on bigger duty days their ANNUAL sick leave quotient is expended in around six or seven days not 10.
Qantas it would seem owe their pilots a substantial amount of compensation.
Effectively whilst the pilot is 'paid' a trip credit for example the equivalent of 6 hours flying the TOD might be say 11 hours.
Qantas have 'decided' that they will deduct 11 hours from the 76 hours. Therefore were the pilot to fall sick on bigger duty days their ANNUAL sick leave quotient is expended in around six or seven days not 10.
Qantas it would seem owe their pilots a substantial amount of compensation.
Rated De, you are a navel gazer of the first order.
In both longhaul and shorthaul, sick leave entitlements ,in terms of days are well above the community norm and the applicable daily credit that applies in the credited hour pay system are the result of many NEGOTIATED EBAs.
So why don’t you stick to a subject you might know a little bit about, your navel.
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So do Qantas deduct from a pilot's sick leave (76 hour) entitlement, a pattern credit or a duty credit?
If it is the latter, is it not plausible that a pilot ill on 11 hour duty days deducts this from the allocated annual 76 hour bank?
A simple yes or no.
Which is precisely why the FWC ruled the way it did, for many categories of employee work more than an 'average' 7.6 hour day meaning that the short haul pilot who emailed the summation, is correct: lose 11 hours of duty from a 76 hour bank and the ANNUAL sick leave is 6.9 days.
By all means continue with the insults but please refute the calculation.
If it is the latter, is it not plausible that a pilot ill on 11 hour duty days deducts this from the allocated annual 76 hour bank?
A simple yes or no.
Which is precisely why the FWC ruled the way it did, for many categories of employee work more than an 'average' 7.6 hour day meaning that the short haul pilot who emailed the summation, is correct: lose 11 hours of duty from a 76 hour bank and the ANNUAL sick leave is 6.9 days.
By all means continue with the insults but please refute the calculation.
Nunc est bibendum
Sick leave is being discussed as part of the SHEA. Management know very clearly that it’s one of the contributing factors to many crew leaving the 737 fleet and subsequent churn. I suspect it’ll be sorted soon.
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So do Qantas deduct from a pilot's sick leave (76 hour) entitlement, a pattern credit or a duty credit?
If it is the latter, is it not plausible that a pilot ill on 11 hour duty days deducts this from the allocated annual 76 hour bank?
A simple yes or no.
Which is precisely why the FWC ruled the way it did, for many categories of employee work more than an 'average' 7.6 hour day meaning that the short haul pilot who emailed the summation, is correct: lose 11 hours of duty from a 76 hour bank and the ANNUAL sick leave is 6.9 days.
By all means continue with the insults but please refute the calculation.
If it is the latter, is it not plausible that a pilot ill on 11 hour duty days deducts this from the allocated annual 76 hour bank?
A simple yes or no.
Which is precisely why the FWC ruled the way it did, for many categories of employee work more than an 'average' 7.6 hour day meaning that the short haul pilot who emailed the summation, is correct: lose 11 hours of duty from a 76 hour bank and the ANNUAL sick leave is 6.9 days.
By all means continue with the insults but please refute the calculation.
no...........
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You could have a 4 day trip worth 45 duty hours and pay 16 hours go sick on that BAM! there goes about 60% of your annual leave entitlement in 1trip, for one sickness, there’s a reason sick leave is an issue in SH and this is what it’s all about. your wrong wombat.
WW, you are deducted DUTY from your 76hrs, and paid CREDIT. It’s rort of the highest order, and if possible, I’ll think you’ll find any pilot who has ever been on SH will be going for compensation!
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Interesting case. Probably need to wait for the Federal Court appeal before getting too excited. Some pertinent questions could be:
- How many duty hours do pilots average per week or per 4 week roster? Less/more than 38/152?
- What is an average day’s work in duty hours?
- How many duty days do pilots average per week/per 28 days?
- What is an average day’s work in duty hours after taking into account that pilots might average less than 5 days work per week/20 per 28 days?
- To what extent is URTI relevant?
But note that pilots are not shift workers for NES purposes.
Probably better to move to a days-based system,
- How many duty hours do pilots average per week or per 4 week roster? Less/more than 38/152?
- What is an average day’s work in duty hours?
- How many duty days do pilots average per week/per 28 days?
- What is an average day’s work in duty hours after taking into account that pilots might average less than 5 days work per week/20 per 28 days?
- To what extent is URTI relevant?
But note that pilots are not shift workers for NES purposes.
Probably better to move to a days-based system,
Last edited by RealityCzech; 17th Aug 2018 at 10:57.
You’re an Idiot Czech,
seriously stupid. First you want to confuse the matter by posting several topics within the same context. Average hours for a short haul pilot between 150-190 per 28 days. More than a 38 hour week on average. URTI not relevant ? Tell the Medical branch at CASA. What an ignorant response. An URTI requires a grounding by a Designated Medical Examiner representing CASA. It’s a licence requirement and not a point of conjecture or debate but fact. Why it has to cost money to be sick in short haul I’ll never fully understand. Do you want crook pilots on the flight deck? Irresponsible to turn up with a virus and infect the other pilot and compromise the safety of the aircraft but no it costs us money! It’s a licence requirement to sign on fit for duty. That means well rested, not under the influence of a drug or medication and able to perform at the best of one’s ability. Read the CASA regs. These rules enshrined in legislation have been around since Pontious was a pilot and yet you want to question them using industrial leverage. Once again you’ve shown yourself as being ignorant and quite frankly a joke. I bet you have a blue background ASIC. Not even qualified to be on the tarmac.
seriously stupid. First you want to confuse the matter by posting several topics within the same context. Average hours for a short haul pilot between 150-190 per 28 days. More than a 38 hour week on average. URTI not relevant ? Tell the Medical branch at CASA. What an ignorant response. An URTI requires a grounding by a Designated Medical Examiner representing CASA. It’s a licence requirement and not a point of conjecture or debate but fact. Why it has to cost money to be sick in short haul I’ll never fully understand. Do you want crook pilots on the flight deck? Irresponsible to turn up with a virus and infect the other pilot and compromise the safety of the aircraft but no it costs us money! It’s a licence requirement to sign on fit for duty. That means well rested, not under the influence of a drug or medication and able to perform at the best of one’s ability. Read the CASA regs. These rules enshrined in legislation have been around since Pontious was a pilot and yet you want to question them using industrial leverage. Once again you’ve shown yourself as being ignorant and quite frankly a joke. I bet you have a blue background ASIC. Not even qualified to be on the tarmac.
I wish I shared your optimism Keg. Management might know it, but if it costs money to fix it then they’re not interested!
AN ASIDE - I have been long retired from the argy-bargy of contract negotiations. (AFAP committee member). BUT . . . . it amuses me to see here, by several posters , that the robust , abusive denigration of supposed feebler minds is ever present.
(Why use sweet-oil and a feather when you have a great effing Claymore in your kit?)
One day in Chandos Street - "excuse me Mister President . .. . but with all due respect . . .. you are full of S***."
(Why use sweet-oil and a feather when you have a great effing Claymore in your kit?)
One day in Chandos Street - "excuse me Mister President . .. . but with all due respect . . .. you are full of S***."
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Possibly less, could be down as low as SEVEN days off per year.
Here's how it works. A typical recent 2 day trip (typical representation of what actually happens in the real world)
Day 1 Four legs 11:15 TOD, stick 5:55
Day 2 Three legs 8:55 TOD, stick 5:00
------------------------------------------------------
Trip total 20:10 TOD, Stick 10:55
Go sick on that trip, 20:10 is deducted from your 76 hour DUTY hours of sick leave per annum. So in this case, it only takes 3.5 of these style of trip (7 days total) and you are out of sick leave for the year.
There is a seperate category for URTI, with 3 days per annum with 28 DUTY hours, non-cumulative with a Doctors certificate that must specifically state URTI. However, for administrative reasons the duty must be less than or equal to your URTI duty hours remaining.
So, in the case above, you have an URTI, 20:10 is deducted, with, therefore 7:50 URTI remaining from your 28. If your next duty is URTI is for a duty of 8:00, you cannot access the remaining 7:50, and thus, the 8 hours is deducted from your 76 personal leave. No pro-rata is available. Therefore, in effect, it is very difficult to access all the 28 DUTY hours of URTI.
Here's how it works. A typical recent 2 day trip (typical representation of what actually happens in the real world)
Day 1 Four legs 11:15 TOD, stick 5:55
Day 2 Three legs 8:55 TOD, stick 5:00
------------------------------------------------------
Trip total 20:10 TOD, Stick 10:55
Go sick on that trip, 20:10 is deducted from your 76 hour DUTY hours of sick leave per annum. So in this case, it only takes 3.5 of these style of trip (7 days total) and you are out of sick leave for the year.
There is a seperate category for URTI, with 3 days per annum with 28 DUTY hours, non-cumulative with a Doctors certificate that must specifically state URTI. However, for administrative reasons the duty must be less than or equal to your URTI duty hours remaining.
So, in the case above, you have an URTI, 20:10 is deducted, with, therefore 7:50 URTI remaining from your 28. If your next duty is URTI is for a duty of 8:00, you cannot access the remaining 7:50, and thus, the 8 hours is deducted from your 76 personal leave. No pro-rata is available. Therefore, in effect, it is very difficult to access all the 28 DUTY hours of URTI.
That is surprising.
We get 21 days + 6 URTIs. Call sick for a single duty and you get one sick day deducted, regardless of the length of the duty. I have something like 200 sick days in the bank, the thought of running out would never occur to me. QF pilots have it better than me in other respects, but the sick leave is surprising.
We get 21 days + 6 URTIs. Call sick for a single duty and you get one sick day deducted, regardless of the length of the duty. I have something like 200 sick days in the bank, the thought of running out would never occur to me. QF pilots have it better than me in other respects, but the sick leave is surprising.
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Financial is likely the only advantage, and only because you flog yourself with 100 hours per 28 days. Consisting of working 18 or 19 days per 28, all long days (11:00+ hours) and either an early start or late finish. The financial was at the cost of no lifestyle. If the entirety of your existence was to live & breath flying, either at an airport coffee shop (unpaid), doing a preflight (unpaid) or flying SYD/MEL/BNE, for which you were well remunerated then you could not find a better flying job. But don't get sick and wait 20 years for a command!
Nunc est bibendum