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F-35: wise spending of our dollars?

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F-35: wise spending of our dollars?

Old 1st Aug 2018, 04:53
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How many F-35's have been lost todate with engine/bird issues? A. Zero, including prototypes, which is unheard of in previous fighter types. Speaking of twin engine safety, the RAAF EA-18G Growler was a write-off at Red Flag recently, due to a catastrophic engine failure on take-off that destroyed the aircraft. Cat 5 and it was a twin engined aircraft...
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 06:04
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Originally Posted by josephfeatherweight
Sounds legit...
(PS. I don't disagree that these things are hideously expensive.)
Meh... Is he in the engineering dept? If they are only making some parts, how does he know what the other parts are worth? Does he know how much research was needed to achieve the degree of performance and LO characteristics? The cost per airframe in bits and pieces may be a fraction of the cost but the extensive design, testing etc doesn't come for free....
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 06:09
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Originally Posted by imperial shifter
How about playing the ball and not the man. The Mig 29 has an intake setup where when on the ground the "flight" intakes are blocked and inlets from above (put very simply!) are open to mitigate against FOD when taxiing on dodgy soviet strips. What defence / capability to withstand does the F35 have against bird ingestion or FOD? Serious question!
Given the size of the mainwheels and 'mudguards' on the nose wheels I'd say the aircraft was designed to operate onto austere fields on occasion. That probably meant they needed and engineering solution to block the main intakes. The F35A is not designed to operate on anything other than a conventional well maintained runway - it therefore doesn't need the same solution. Incidentally - extra complexity, weight and the potential issues with signature are also reasons to avoid using it on the F35. If you do need to operate from an austere field, LM would point you towards the F35B.
'
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 10:20
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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MK1 - I was being sarcastic (sorry, should have made it more obvious)
To me, it read along the lines of "my best mate's, neighbour's plumber reckons..."
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 17:32
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Originally Posted by Going Boeing
The F35, due to its stealth characteristics, won't have to operate close to the ground very often and thus won't be exposed to birdstrikes to the same degree as non steath fighter/attack aircraft. This significantly reduces the risk associated with operating a single engine fighter..
Three letters - C A S
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 18:55
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C A S in a F35 would probably involve throwing smarter bombs from a greater height & distance. Gunnery would be an option that would be used less than with current fighters.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 04:20
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Originally Posted by Going Boeing
Gunnery would be an option that would be used less than with current fighters.
Uhhhhh huh. Providing CAS is an option ?




Last edited by JPJP; 3rd Aug 2018 at 20:14. Reason: my original post made less sense.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 04:12
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My perfed option wuz alwayz a six sec bust on the cannons up the pipe...... the dirty commies never new what hit em��
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 12:03
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6 seconds would be just about the whole drum wouldn’t it??
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 16:06
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The Mirage dates back to 1956... things have moved on a bit since then..........
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 17:11
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In the Uk we have similar debates.
Two very different scenarios in terms of threats but when you get down to it what really is the threat to Australia, I mean you arent going to fly them half way a ound the world to help us out are you.

From here it looks like Indonesia witha radical government in the future. maybe makes some sense

China-well if they want to make a move on all that space you have got a couple of smart fighters is not going to deter them is it. Basically you are toast before breakfast , but its very very unlikely isnt it?

Same here, who are the enemies, well its not the Russians anymore because they have already invaded England , well London , and they are more right wing than our Government is and all their allies are now our allies.

China is too far away so that leaves the EU and the USA who are traditionally on the same side . the EU military is about 5 times the size of the UKs and has the same or better equipment .

The USA , who knows with Trump, is equally unlikely and even if something did happen you can bet that a software intensive fighter would mysteriously stop working if used against its maker.

So define the threat first and then buy the toys -personally i think we in UK should have just stuck with our Typhoons and dumped the carriers and spent the money on more spooks and rapid response tactical level elite troops. And of course with the zillions left over spend it on such useless items as the health service, elderly care and better education but thats so boring. Maybe its different down there but seeing as you could give away the northern half of your country and no one would notice or care maybe you have some better alternatives too.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 00:23
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Does anyone decrying the F-35 actually have experience flying Fast Jets in the RAAF? Just thinking out loud... I mean, it's almost like there's maybe some level of technical mastery, qualified understanding and knowledge that goes into these decisions and projects.

I could be wrong though, and maybe wikipedia is where it's at.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 04:59
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Originally Posted by Bullytactics


Flying one has absolutely nothing to do with it, I’m sure they’re a lot of fun.
So if, say, a high-ranking FCI with a few decades of operational experience reckons the F-35 is definitely the way to go for the RAAF, that wouldn’t count for anything?
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 05:26
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Would a high-ranking RAAF FCI be able to say anything different publically?

Some ex-RAAF FCI's not employed in the military industrial complex after RAAF retirement have reservations about the aircraft.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 05:44
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Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard


So if, say, a high-ranking FCI with a few decades of operational experience reckons the F-35 is definitely the way to go for the RAAF, that wouldn’t count for anything?
I'm yet to meet a single F-35 driver who doesn't like the aircraft.

More to the point, I'm yet to see anyone provide a genuine 5th generation airframe that represents the same overall value for money (I'm talking sensors, integration etc, not just what it can do at an airshow )
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 05:51
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
Would a high-ranking RAAF FCI be able to say anything different publically?
No idea. This was a private conversation with a former colleague.

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Old 6th Aug 2018, 07:05
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From here it looks like Indonesia witha radical government in the future. maybe makes some sense
Actually, Indonesia's forecast GDP growth over the next 20 + years is so significant, a stable government, with sensible military procurement, is as big a game changer for Australia's strategic environment as a destabilised Indonesian leadership and all its potential internal horror. Indonesia will have money to run a modernisation program not unlike, though on a smaller scale, as the PLA. I'd argue, that as per RAND studies on air superiority, stealth fighter numbers would become critical for the RAAF to hold its own against a rapidly expanding Indonesia- if a threat. A stable, growing Indonesia though, is more likely to be rubbing up against conflicting interest with the Chinese in the South China Sea. Military planners in Australia know this and it is not unlikely for the former state of "Kamaria" to have shared regional interests and military alliances pushing toward 2030.

China's maritime Silk Route is dependant on the Malacca Straits. Alternative routes are via the Sunda and Lombok straights in the Indonesian archipelago and are particularly vulnerable to Australian and American airpower in northern bases. China's reliance on energy and trade is massive and it is yet to possess a capability to break a blockade from a medium power- even Singapore say- in interdicting its maritime routes at these choke points.

The government has invested in an air force that can lift the capabilities of others in the region with its capabilities including JSF. It is also has the ability to bolt-on to US capabilities offering a fair commitment to our alliance. The RAAF is also in a position to be expanded if needed over a reasonable time-frame of any unforeseen threats emerging. Australia is not toast before breakfast for the PLA.

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 6th Aug 2018 at 10:51.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 08:24
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Before the Cold War ended the Russians were considered to have a very capable military mainly because they had lots of military hardware. Proxy wars in the Middle East where Russian Command and Control tactics were used demonstrated that Communist military doctrine was flawed. This was made more apparent once the Wall came down. A lot of current thinking seems to be elevating the PLA to the same Cold War status as the USSR even though they have a very similar Communist Command and Control system. I agree with this statement:

Australia is not toast before breakfast for the PLA.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 08:54
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Gnandeberg is correct - it all turns on Indonesia - it's very unlikely that they would become an ally of the PRC - and they are one hell of a road block in the way - even with their current minimal set of forces

With limited military investment they could make China's strategic position rather uncomfortable if they wanted to - unless the Chinese want to send everything via the Panama Canal

Australian support for the TNI should be a bedrock of your strategy
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 12:32
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HH Australia has trained and supported the TNI for a very long time. You just would not have heard about it on the other side of the world. Its not only the military cooperation but also the Australian Federal Police have regular contact with their Indonesian counterparts regarding security and terrorism activities.
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