Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 16th Jun 2018, 09:37
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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who really appears to have risen well above their level of competence.
A textbook example of “The Peter Principle”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

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Old 18th Jun 2018, 01:03
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Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle View Post

A textbook example of “The Peter Principle”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

... or the Dunning-Kruger effect...
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 01:58
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 01:54
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This from fragrant Harbour forum......no wonder he's getting out! HNA's financial problems are old news. Where there is smoke there is usually fire.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ga-debtor-hna/
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 03:12
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Scary stuff. There will be no more cash to bail out Virgin, however, I’d suggest that whatever HNA do or don’t do with VA, it will have little impact on their problems.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 03:21
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HNA bosses are well connected , I’m sure they’ve enjoyed the big spending spree over the journey and no doubt they hoped the music would continue . It appears Beijing have put them on a short leash now . Probably to big to fail though ?
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 04:27
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Toruk Macto View Post
HNA bosses are well connected , I’m sure they’ve enjoyed the big spending spree over the journey and no doubt they hoped the music would continue . It appears Beijing have put them on a short leash now . Probably to big to fail though ?

Yep, Just like Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers.......When you have debt and/or hold garbage assets eventually you have to pay the piper.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 04:14
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tommy Bahama View Post
This from fragrant Harbour forum......no wonder he's getting out! HNA's financial problems are old news. Where there is smoke there is usually fire.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ga-debtor-hna/
Yeah, you know because JB doesnt have much money and needs to get out now whilst he can.....................................
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:10
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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And is....

gone.
wheels_down is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:50
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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It is an interesting comment on our corporate world that one of the few people to make any significant money out of the airline (excluding salaries) has just left the building having made millions over and above his already generous salary, in an environment where shareholders saw a significant fall in the value of their holdings and funded massive losses.

it is also interesting that said person’s corporate bedfellow also oversaw the virtual destruction of a certain unnamed middle eastern airline and ‘joined together’ (look up joined together in Arabic) with a ragtag bunch of airlines which almost without exception have fallen over or are close to it (maybe with the exception of VA which does not appear to be quite as tenuous as say an Indian carrier who shall remain nameless but has many ‘jets’ grounded due to lack of lease payments.)

i wonder how much they bounced ideas off each other.

That said the strategy may have been generally ok, though it has to be said that the predictions that Virgin Blue in its original guise was doomed to fail have to be viewed in the context of the fact that it made more profit during the 10 or so years of its existence prior to the management change (I won’t say leadership) in an environment where it was expanding exponentially than it did over the following 8 years when the airline was repositioned in the market but where growth stagnated.

An OK strategy though doesn’t mean a lot if the execution is flawed. I expect that the last 8-9 years or so will become a study in how NOT to do things and someone will write what will become a university management school text book like Worst to First by Gordon Bethune or A Splash of Colors: The Self-Destruction of Braniff International by John J Nance (a book which details many similarities to a certain airline I might add).

The staff have done their bit (for the most part) to try and make this work but the fish rots at the head and I hope the new guy has a good head in his shoulders and doesn’t come in with a cut costs mindset otherwise we will end up like QR with even fewer staff and resources and a massive hurdle to overcome to get things back on track (pardon the rail metaphor)

i wait with baited breath
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 17:32
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by T-Vasis View Post
John had to do what he did to Virgin for its survival. Low cost airlines only survive by continued growth in order to take advantages of economies of scale and market share. If you stop growing, your margins are eaten up by cost rises e.g. cogs, fuel, labour etc.

You can't just increase price in this environment. The customer type will transfer to bus, train, or not travel at all. And then you get further hammered by your competitor who has the scale and the capital, to undercut you, and continue to grow. It was a double sword for Virgin. It would be gone today. He did the only thing he could to ensure survival.
echo your sentiment. virgin/borghetti stands little chance against the red tail which enjoys -inherited- scale and capital from its former owner who I suggest aren’t ready to severe ties completely yet and indirectly shields the red tail from foreign threat or influence.

As long as this is the status quo, virgin won’t stand a chance irrespective of leadership.

...my opinion...
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 22:51
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indirectly shields the red tail from foreign threat or influence.
That’s a curious notion.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do government policies not allow a 100% foreign owned airline to come and set up shop in Australia and directly compete in the domestic market?

Indeed, has the Australian government intervened to stop numerous, foreign government owned entities from purchasing and then pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into a particular airline to directly fund its advance into the market previously held by ‘the red tail’?

If that is an attempt to ‘shield the red tail from foreign threat’ then they are doing a lousy job of it.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 23:10
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post
Correct me if I’m wrong, but do government policies not allow a 100% foreign owned airline to come and set up shop in Australia and directly compete in the domestic market
Domestic only. Tiger being the only example really.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 00:43
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Well to be fair Virgin Blue was pretty much totally foreign owned until it was flogged to Patrick’s or toll or floated or whatever happened - I can’t remember the order of events.

Air NZ had quite advanced plans to set up a domestic operation years ago I believe but for various reasons it didn’t happen. Nothing to say it won’t happen in the future.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 02:22
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Back in the day a book was being run to see who'd hit the wall first: Ansett, Virgin Blue or Impulse. As it transpired Ansett folded but maybe if it survived, we'd not have had the madness on the domestic scene that followed when JB 'reinvented' Virgin Blue as a full service carrier. Just sayin'.........
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 02:45
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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having made millions over and above his already generous salary, in an environment where shareholders saw a significant fall in the value of their holdings and funded massive losses.
Its an interesting notion and not any different from any of the ‘other’ operators within aus or corporate aus in general for that matter. But it beggars the questions, what would have to happen for the exec team to not get these bonuses? It appears folding is about it!
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 04:08
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do government policies not allow a 100% foreign owned airline to come and set up shop in Australia and directly compete in the domestic market?
Youre not wrong in everything you’ve said. I spoke with respect to the red tail context specifically and the application of its qsa.

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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 04:11
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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It's common knowledge that the SkyGods are the nations favoured Airline from the general public thru to the Chairman's Lounge members, plenty of 'mates' in high places means Virgin haven't got a chance at even coming close to the Leprechauns big buddies at the top end of town, he's one very clever little...…………. 'thing'!:-):-)
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 00:39
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like this CEO has quickly worked out that staff sitting in space available Business Class doesn’t affect the balance sheet and might create some good will and further flexibilty.

Let’s hope people behave themselves!

Last edited by Berealgetreal; 1st Aug 2019 at 01:39.
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 02:33
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Being space available, no doubt more expensive than econ and no extra meals uploaded, I would have thought it would potentially increase the balance sheet
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