MERGED: Qantas ...was it blackmail?
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Location: AUS
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The big 4 airports have operating margins of something like 40-50% The ACCC found that their parking margins are over 70%. That's what happens with these monopoly businesses.....CBR is private so I don't know its operating margins but I doubt they are doing much worse than the others. If QF had profit margins of that size it would be making $4-5 billion profits.
Consider the following P/E ratios for ASX50 companies:
SYD airport: 44.7
CSL: 39.4
WES: 33.5
BHP: 31.5
IAG: 19.2
MQG: 15
RIO: 13.8
CBA: 12.3
QAN: 12
VAH (not ASX50) :not much...
Maybe the airlines think there should be a little more publicity around the massive profit margins of major AUS airports, paid for by the airlines and passengers?
Consider the following P/E ratios for ASX50 companies:
SYD airport: 44.7
CSL: 39.4
WES: 33.5
BHP: 31.5
IAG: 19.2
MQG: 15
RIO: 13.8
CBA: 12.3
QAN: 12
VAH (not ASX50) :not much...
Maybe the airlines think there should be a little more publicity around the massive profit margins of major AUS airports, paid for by the airlines and passengers?
Last edited by Tuner 2; 18th May 2018 at 09:50.
Don't make me laugh. Since when did airlines become such paragons of virtue?
Lead Balloon:
Were the aircraft's occupants 'imprisoned' in this case and, if so, by whom? In the car park/wheel clamping example, you said the 'person can walk away'. Theoretically, the 'person' in the airport incident can do exactly the same by getting off the aircraft. Surely the person is only 'imprisoned' if the airline or airport operator prevents that from happening.
Were the aircraft's occupants 'imprisoned' in this case and, if so, by whom? In the car park/wheel clamping example, you said the 'person can walk away'. Theoretically, the 'person' in the airport incident can do exactly the same by getting off the aircraft. Surely the person is only 'imprisoned' if the airline or airport operator prevents that from happening.
Theoretically, the passengers can get off the aircraft and drive the vehicle that’s blocking the aircraft’s movement, so that the vehicle is no longer blocking the aircraft’s movements.
Then there’s reality.
It may be that both the airline and the airport operator have falsely imprisoned the passengers. But I reckon it’s mostly down to the airport operator. But for the airport operator’s decision to use the people on the aircraft as pawns in its money game, the airline wouldn’t be in the position of deciding whether and how to offload the passengers and their baggage.
The job of spin doctor for the Canberra Airport operator is presumably quite lucrative. But I wonder whether it’s fulfilling.
: ugh:
Thank you.
The job of spin doctor for the Canberra Airport operator is presumably quite lucrative. But I wonder whether it’s fulfilling.
If anyone reading this thread is actually interested in the licensing arrangements for the use of CBR as an alternate, the following correspondence provides some background info:
https://www.casa.gov.au/file/119651/...token=bbCRSd_A
https://www.casa.gov.au/file/119651/...token=bbCRSd_A
You have an amazingly deep insight into the arrangements for use of CBR airport, BuzzBox. Are you aware of whether they’ve been the subject of judicial scrutiny?
massive profit margins of major AUS airports, paid for by the airlines and passengers?
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Fair enough. So my original point of "Maybe the airlines think there should be a little more publicity around the massive profit margins of major AUS airports " , which are paid for by passengers, still stands then.
I don't think the public would be too surprised. After all, they pay the parking and coffee prices. They would probably be more surprised that QF is arguing about a few thousand, while managing to pay its CEO $25M, 50 times what the PM gets.
Qantas fights with Canberra Airport Manager
Looks like a bit of a spat has occurred between Alan Joyce and Canberra Airports Manager according to the ABC web site:
Qantas boss Alan Joyce likens Canberra Airport to Somali pirates; airport responds with bewilderment - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
The little fella is flexing his muscles it would seem.
Qantas boss Alan Joyce likens Canberra Airport to Somali pirates; airport responds with bewilderment - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
The little fella is flexing his muscles it would seem.
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My thoughts exactly. Apparently Joyce thinks its ok to strand tens of thousands of passengers all around the world by grounding your fleet, in a pay dispute with your staff, but not ok to stop one aircraft from leaving over a dispute with payments for procedural operating standards, where you have been abusing the system.
^^^^^^^^
I don’t know the rights and wrongs of this, but just listened to an ABC (AUS) radio report on same quoting Qantas as saying CBR were behaving like Somali Pirates! Hilarious!! You could write a book/movie on Napoleons’ fibbing, lies, about faces, doublethink and incompetence but no one could believe it was based on fact!
I don’t know the rights and wrongs of this, but just listened to an ABC (AUS) radio report on same quoting Qantas as saying CBR were behaving like Somali Pirates! Hilarious!! You could write a book/movie on Napoleons’ fibbing, lies, about faces, doublethink and incompetence but no one could believe it was based on fact!
"Consumers are losing out, because there's hundreds of millions of dollars in higher charges that we can't pass on to our customers
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He’s sort of got a point, but maybe overdoing the outrage a bit for someone who deliberately stranded 100000 pax not so long ago.
What remains of political capital was mostly spent in Canberra that day. Of course whilst speaking of ransom little Napoleon ought be rather careful, it is exactly what he held the CHOGM heads and an elected government to, after allegedly making his mind up, all by himself on a Saturday morning. Of course with nothing to hide Lucinda Holdforth would have been allowed to publish her book, explaining how she got a call on Saturday afternoon to sit down with Freehills and write the little fellow's 'speech'.
With respect to the dovetailing of national infrastructure, is it really a surprise that one private monopoly charges a premium to another private near monopoly? Neither of which care for national interest unless a 'flag of convenience' needs flying?
Looks like they've nailed Atlas now as well......
SMH
So where was the NOTAM and HAZARD Alert?
SMH
An international freight plane flying for Qantas was stuck with a $67,000 bill after making an unexpected landing at Canberra Airport.Invoices showed the freight company had to pay the bill by credit card in three instalments because it was so large, before the plane could continue to Sydney.
The diversion, in February 2017, happened a month before a controversial incident in which an escort car was parked behind a diverted Qantas plane after another unexpected landing.An invoice and credit card receipts showed the 747 freight plane was billed a $19,000 landing charge, a $14,000 aircraft parking charge, and a $28,000 alternate operation fee, plus $6,000 in GST.It is understood that Qantas reimbursed the freight company for the fee but is now seeking a partial refund from Canberra Airport.A Qantas spokesman said: "This is the kind of behaviour that the airport seems to think is justifiable and which they can get away with because they are a monopoly. It’s outrageous.”In March 2017, a Qantas plane was briefly stranded on the tarmac after making an unexpected landing at Canberra Airport due to bad weather.Qantas said Canberra Airport asked for an $18,000 diversion charge to be paid by credit card before the plane could be released.
This claim appeared to be backed up by an invoice seen by Fairfax Media.
“I have attached the invoice for the diversion today by the above noted aircraft,” an airport employee wrote.
“Please note the aircraft cannot depart until the invoice is paid. Payment by credit card please.”Canberra Airport said the plane was only delayed for eight minutes, and the diversion was the latest in a series of unexpected landings jeopardising safety.Canberra Airport also rejected that the plane was “ransomed”, and said it even left in time to make its allocated slot time in Sydney.“It was the last in a series of unannounced diversions by Qantas that posed a safety risk at Canberra Airport,” a spokeswoman said.“One such incident occurred during the refuelling of a fire fighting plane during a fast-moving bushfire.”On Monday Qantas wrote to the Kenyan High Commission on the back of comments made by airline industry group chair Graeme Samuel, which likened Canberra Airport to Somalia or Nairobi.“Qantas does indeed hold Kenya and Nairobi in high regard,” group executive Andrew Parker wrote to high commissioner Isaiya Kabira.“We regularly promote your country in our various digital and marketing platforms and in our Qantas Magazine, which has a circulation of over four million readers.”Last week the former chair of Australia’s competition watchdog, Graeme Samuel, likened the aggressive behaviour of Canberra Airport to something out of Somalia or Kenya.
In response, Kenya’s high commissioner to Australia, Isaiya Kabira, rebuked the comparison in an open letter sent to Fairfax Media.“While it is in your full right to express your outrage, we find it extremely unfortunate that you draw parallels of inefficiency and imagery of piracy to a respected and much-admired airport of Nairobi,” Mr Kabira wrote.Mr Samuel made the comparison at an airline industry event at Parliament House on Thursday last week.
At the same event Mr Joyce had likened Canberra Airport to a band of Somali pirates.
“Maybe the airport should be called ‘The Canberra Pirates’ because you wouldn’t have this in Somalia,” Mr Joyce said.
“You wouldn’t have this in other parts of the world. It is unbelievably appalling behaviour.”
Qantas explained the remark in Monday's letter.
“There was a reference made to Somalia to illustrate the seriousness of the issue at Canberra Airport and the parallel of piracy in the Arabian Sea,” Mr Parker wrote.“As we stated at the event last Thursday, our 737 was detained by the airport - using a vehicle parked behind the aircraft - until payment was made, the very definition of piracy.”
This claim appeared to be backed up by an invoice seen by Fairfax Media.
“I have attached the invoice for the diversion today by the above noted aircraft,” an airport employee wrote.
“Please note the aircraft cannot depart until the invoice is paid. Payment by credit card please.”Canberra Airport said the plane was only delayed for eight minutes, and the diversion was the latest in a series of unexpected landings jeopardising safety.Canberra Airport also rejected that the plane was “ransomed”, and said it even left in time to make its allocated slot time in Sydney.“It was the last in a series of unannounced diversions by Qantas that posed a safety risk at Canberra Airport,” a spokeswoman said.“One such incident occurred during the refuelling of a fire fighting plane during a fast-moving bushfire.”On Monday Qantas wrote to the Kenyan High Commission on the back of comments made by airline industry group chair Graeme Samuel, which likened Canberra Airport to Somalia or Nairobi.“Qantas does indeed hold Kenya and Nairobi in high regard,” group executive Andrew Parker wrote to high commissioner Isaiya Kabira.“We regularly promote your country in our various digital and marketing platforms and in our Qantas Magazine, which has a circulation of over four million readers.”Last week the former chair of Australia’s competition watchdog, Graeme Samuel, likened the aggressive behaviour of Canberra Airport to something out of Somalia or Kenya.
In response, Kenya’s high commissioner to Australia, Isaiya Kabira, rebuked the comparison in an open letter sent to Fairfax Media.“While it is in your full right to express your outrage, we find it extremely unfortunate that you draw parallels of inefficiency and imagery of piracy to a respected and much-admired airport of Nairobi,” Mr Kabira wrote.Mr Samuel made the comparison at an airline industry event at Parliament House on Thursday last week.
At the same event Mr Joyce had likened Canberra Airport to a band of Somali pirates.
“Maybe the airport should be called ‘The Canberra Pirates’ because you wouldn’t have this in Somalia,” Mr Joyce said.
“You wouldn’t have this in other parts of the world. It is unbelievably appalling behaviour.”
Qantas explained the remark in Monday's letter.
“There was a reference made to Somalia to illustrate the seriousness of the issue at Canberra Airport and the parallel of piracy in the Arabian Sea,” Mr Parker wrote.“As we stated at the event last Thursday, our 737 was detained by the airport - using a vehicle parked behind the aircraft - until payment was made, the very definition of piracy.”
and the diversion was the latest in a series of unexpected landings jeopardising safety
the very definition of piracy
Piracy
1: an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery
2: robbery on the high seas
3a : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright
b : the illicit accessing of broadcast signals
Qantas were not being robbed. They were being asked to pay a fee for the use of facilities they had already used, by the legal owner of those facilities. Try flying on a QF aircraft without paying, and see what happens.