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Launy for QF Training School

Old 24th Aug 2018, 00:57
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post


I think there would be different entry pathways into the academy. There would be some who choose to train there as a private student and then be free to seek a job elsewhere in the industry. And then there would be those who would enter on a pathway into the Qantas group, which I assume would be the majority.
Qantas are quoting that there will be 500 trainees. I can’t see there being demand for 251 pilots per year for the Qantas Group alone. If anyone goes into this academy without an iron clad agreement of employment they need to be aware they can be left high and dry with no job. Having seen that some ‘cadets’ have not been employed in recent times is a reminder of caveat emptor.

I’m not here to knock the process but more as a warning to those that think it’ll be a forgone conclusion of a guaranteed job. The job that you might get afterwards could possibly pay as little as 40 thousand a year.

Qantas is setting up an academy to flood the market with pilots to avoid paying higher wages.
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 02:05
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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It's a great plan. Get people to pay $110k plus for a CPL and then tell them you can only pay them $60k because there is a oversupply of pilots.

You pay them and they turn around and screw you.

Genius! !!!
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 02:36
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by angryrat View Post
Qantas are quoting that there will be 500 trainees. I can’t see there being demand for 251 pilots per year for the Qantas Group alone.


In the QF recruitment thread it's being stated that they are looking for up to 200 per year for mainline alone, let alone Group and associated companies. The 500 figure was an aim to which this academy system could eventually ramp up to, which may include private students, foreign students etc.

I’m not here to knock the process but more as a warning to those that think it’ll be a forgone conclusion of a guaranteed job.
In the private sector there's zero guarantee of a job. You could get a confirmed position with an airline and start employment, the next week the company makes a loss and cuts it's numbers and you get made redundant. I do agree what happened to those cadets was disgraceful. Hopefully the same mistakes aren't made.

The job that you might get afterwards could possibly pay as little as 40 thousand a year.
I don't think there's an EBA within the group that pays that little except for training wages.
It's a great plan. Get people to pay $110k plus for a CPL and then tell them you can only pay them $60k because there is a oversupply of pilots.
Add up the price for a CPL, IR and other necessary training for an airline position from a normal flying school and you'll get a figure that's not too far off that price. With zero guarantees afterwards.

Last edited by dr dre; 24th Aug 2018 at 03:51.
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 20:37
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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That high cost of training with zero guarantees is why the industry currently finds itself with a shortage. What does one more school with that model have to offer?

By the way...QF mainline is going to stabilise at a 3% annual pilot replacement rate which is around 75 pikots, I don’t know how much churn there is at other group airlines due to career/remuneration reasons.
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 23:05
  #105 (permalink)  
Seagull201
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Anyone that trains at the academy and aren't
offered jobs in the QF group on completion of training, will more than likely, be offered flight instructor jobs at the academy, after completing the instructor rating.

Its highly likely, that 50 per cent of flight instructors at the academy, will be persons, that completed all their training at the academy.

Have a look whats happening in the U.S.
On completion of a CPL and instructor rating, persons work as an instructor until reaching 1500 hours, then become regional airline jet f/o's.

If a person trains at thr QF academy and doesn't have a job lined up as an f/o, and decides to do the instructor rating, a persons debt level could climb to 180k.
Thats not nice!
 
Old 25th Aug 2018, 00:07
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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So, someone stumps up $120k in the expectation of a job with QF.
They fail to meet the QF selection. So they stump up another $60k to earn the privilege of teaching the next group, who fully expect to meet the QF selection, having paid their $120k. For their money they have an expectation of highly motivated and skilled instruction.

The USA model is different in that the instructors need to get 1500 hours. Depending on the particular academy, some may not know one way or the other whether they will make it to the big time. Either way, having to do a good job for a couple of years would surely be a better motivator than to employ instructors who already know they have been rejected and are merely hanging in there to pay off a huge debt as best they can.
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 00:38
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Still wondering how they will find instructors for 200 students, just about every school in the country right now is facing an instructor shortage, schools with full time courses are delaying them, extending them and cancelling them, instructors are working maximum legal hours.
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 04:04
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Lucky if I could get 1 hour a week instructing when I was a young bloke !
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 11:21
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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The cost of this bul#$%it Q college will be a considerable margin over and above any competition (because the arrogant turds think that anything with the Q logo on it is worth more for no other reason than that logo) so when the reality hits home that paying the money does not equate to a job the whole thing will fail. The sad fact is that international operations are doomed to fail, today, tomorrow or next month doesn't really matter as the writing is on the wall so get out now and focus on what you can make money out of and forget the good old days because they are long gone.
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 23:53
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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A good start on instructor retention and to ensure some quality, would be to offer two streams:
1. Experienced old farts who have an appropriate check & training background and who are approaching or beyond normal retirement. It would have to be financially attractive for said old farts to give up their daily round of golf.
2. The top 10% of their own students, trained at QF expense and given QF seniority from day one of the instructor course, so that they are not disadvantaged. To remain as instructor for two years, then move in accordance with their seniority. Paid at least the same as their cohort while instructing.

If they think that the pathetic award rate for a Grade 3 will have instructors falling out of the trees or migrants bashing down the door just to live in the lucky country they are in for severe disappointment.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 04:22
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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AFAP ad with a posting for FTA opening a base at Wellcamp.

Cat outta the bag?
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 04:50
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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I had a feeling in my waters that it might be Wellcamp. Didn't RQAC leave a perfectly good hardly used purpose built building up there before they collapsed?
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 11:03
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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You might be on to something!

Afap shows FTA looking for instructors for new operations at Toowoomba called FTQ for minimum 3yrs. They already do qlink, so my money that's 1 of the bases!
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 12:42
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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I would imagine one of the pre-requisites would be; how many days of good weather per annum to allow for ab-initio through to completion. Of course an ILS would be a necessity, with access to same without delays for airline traffic...
QF Flight School, room for a golf course off the end of the runway perhaps ..
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 00:14
  #115 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
I did hear a rumour though that when Joyce was undergoing treatment for prostrate cancer that he was there at the same time with one of the family members responsible for Wellcamp and that a friendship was struck up and that their ‘can do’ attitude may see the training facilities established there. Not for $20 mill mind you, they’d need a truck load more than that for a green fields site.
i posted this on 10 May.

Given the article in Friday’s Oz about Toowoomba looking to contribute an extra $55 mill to the bid and some of the other comments I reckon they’re a shoe in now.

Nine regional centres are pulling out all stops to attract a prize they believe will deliver international recognition, as well as hundreds of jobs and a major economic boost.

In a fierce battle normally associated with Olympic hosting rights, the towns are competing for one of two Qantas pilot training academies.

With the international pilot shortage starting to bite, the academies are considered an important initiative by the airline and one that will attract interest from aviators worldwide.

In an effort to increase their chances, the towns and cities are using everything from nostalgia to the offer of custom-built facilities to attract the $10 million apiece investment.

The Northern Territory has suggested Qantas put the NT back into the airline and locate the academy in Alice Springs, while Busselton in Western Australia has offered to build a new airport terminal should the academy come its way.

Tamworth has emphasised the town’s long association with pilot training dating back to World War II, and Launceston has campaigned on a platform of isolation and clear open skies.

But they could all be blindsided by Toowoomba’s bid, which comes with a $55m commitment from the local Wagner family to create a new facility on the site of their Wellcamp Airport.

Toowoomba Mayor Paul Antonio said he was “very confident” in the outcome, as a result of having the Wagners on board.

“I’ve seen the Wagner family’s submission and it’s amazing — what they’re prepared to do to get this for the region,” Mr Antonio said. “I have a bit of a feeling we’ll do well.”

While Qantas is remaining tight-lipped ahead of the announcement in a few weeks, other centres are not giving up.

Tamworth Mayor Col Murray said a Qantas pilot training academy would fill the gap left by the Defence Force, which had relocated its pilot training to Sale in Victoria. “If Qantas was to select Tamworth, that would reinstate the business (of pilot training),” Mr Murray said. “There’s lots of capacity at the airport and we have very good flying conditions.”

Wagga Wagga Mayor Greg Conkey conceded that Toowoomba and Tamworth had “strong cases”. “But we’d consider ourselves to be the dark horse,” Mr Conkey said.

“It’s a tough decision for (Qantas) but it’s encouraging they’ve decided to have two locations.”

Bendigo Mayor Margaret O’Rourke said the town’s liveability was its greatest strength, and it offered good job prospects for the families and partners of the flight instructors.

“We have world-class health facilities, the headquarters of Bendigo and Adelaide Bank, and substantial industry,” Ms O’Rourke said.

“Bendigo also has 320 clear air days a year, uncongested airspace and a newly upgraded runway.”

On the other side of the country, Busselton Mayor Grant Henley said there were obvious benefits for Qantas in locating one of its academies in the west.

“They see (this academy) as attracting significant demand from Asia, where a lot of that huge shortfall in pilots is going to emanate from,” Mr Henley said.

“We’re in the same timezone and in reasonable proximity to those communities where they’re looking at sourcing pilots from in the future and who can afford to undertake that training.

“We think that’s certainly a bonus for us.”

Mackay Regional Mayor Greg Williamson said the whole community of Mackay, the most northern destination in the running, was excited to be short-listed for the academy.

“This is a good stake in the ground for regional Australia and good on Qantas for making that move to put regional Australia back on the map,” Mr Williamson said.


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Old 1st Sep 2018, 00:17
  #116 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by Keg View Post

Can anyone realistically view any single training provider in Australia coping with 40 new trainees every month of the year? Aeroplanes? Instructors? LAMEs? Ground Instructors?

It'll be awesome if they can make it work but it's a scale that Australia has never seen. Even at it's peak in the early '90s the Australian Aviation College (now Flight Training Adelaide) struggled to get more than about 180 through in any one year.
I guess they solved this problem with the two different locations. It’s still a massive undertaking though.
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 00:30
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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I guess they solved this problem with the two different locations. It’s still a massive undertaking though.
So many moving to parts to this and any one of them could be problematic. Love the ambition but it’s quite difficult to imagine what they are claiming will come to fruition.
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Old 16th Sep 2018, 09:09
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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If the Wagners Wellcamp have stumped up another $55m in infrastructure in its proposal, It’s a no brainer this one.

I’ve been flying around some GA airports in Victoria last week and I’m fairly disgraced with the standard of some of these strips. In fact it’s a common problem across the state, its like nobody had spent a cent on them in decades. Bendigo putting in a submission? You have got to be kidding me.

Mareeba is another one. Investing tens of millions for quality GA facilities, that are actively talking about GA growth.

Last edited by wheels_down; 16th Sep 2018 at 09:20.
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Old 17th Sep 2018, 12:39
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Did you actually put wheels down on the new YBDG strip? At 18 months old, i'd hardly call it in a disgraceful state...
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 01:07
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Its highly likely, that 50 per cent of flight instructors at the academy, will be persons, that completed all their training at the academy.
The blind leading the blind..
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