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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 19:22
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JJJ01 View Post
But now we see a new theme creeping in whereby you are also critising Qantas’s 787 PER-LHR - did you realise this is actually a “new” aeroplane flying a new and challenging route? So poor old Alan just can’t win with you. Doesn’t buy new jets, gets criticised. Buys some new jets, flies them directly to Europe, gets criticised.
Alan Joyce didn't order the 787s, Dixon did.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 21:32
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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I think everyone would applaud QF for working on a new route, but there have been so many withdrawn routes and slots to London (especially Europe!! and that's ignoring the debacle SIN/DXB/SIN mess that gave away large numbers of Qf's premium passengers) that PER-LHR can hardly be seen to have 'added' anything to QF's pax numbers. It defies belief that you can swap a 747 for a 787 and 'expand' at the same time.

I also think it's VERY fair to point out that the enormous numbers of Dixon ordered 787's that QF is taking on the world with, is hardly likely to send any opposition airline into a cowering frenzy of fear.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 23:04
  #463 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
I think everyone would applaud QF for working on a new route, but there have been so many withdrawn routes and slots to London (especially Europe!! and that's ignoring the debacle SIN/DXB/SIN mess that gave away large numbers of Qf's premium passengers) that PER-LHR can hardly be seen to have 'added' anything to QF's pax numbers. It defies belief that you can swap a 747 for a 787 and 'expand' at the same time.

I also think it's VERY fair to point out that the enormous numbers of Dixon ordered 787's that QF is taking on the world with, is hardly likely to send any opposition airline into a cowering frenzy of fear.
The 787 is now a second generation of new aircraft. The 777X and A350 been the latest and greatest. Qantas have no 350 seat aircraft to replace the 747 arriving in the foreseeable future. I will stick my neck out and say the 787 is only coming because the price they got them for when Dixon ordered them was so good they couldn’t let them go.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 23:32
  #464 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
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Originally Posted by VC9 View Post
Well said JJJ01
Hear, hear.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm going to be controversial and say that I don't think there is a case for 'urgent' fleet renewal at QF, over and above what they're already doing. Certainly, they need to replace the B747s in the near to medium term - and that will happen by 2020.

But, why replace the rest of the fleet any time soon? Starting from the bottom up:

- the Q300s and Q400s are doing fine service, as are the B717s - yes, they are old, and they will need to be replaced eventually, but they are reliable, fill a niche well, and are highly profitable from all reports.
- the B737s - the oldest is coming up on 16 years old and many are owned by QF; aircraft in Australia are depreciated over 20 years, so QF would be lighting money on fire to get rid of them early (unless they can secure good rates for 16yo B737NGs on the secondary market...). More importantly, they remain reliable and highly profitable. There is no burning need for more ASK domestically or trans-Tasman. VA is moving to B737MAXs, but from all reports that will stretch their balance sheet - in other words, the capital cost of MAXs is high. So, not a clear case to start replacing the NGs... Yet. By waiting, QF keeps its options open to move to a fleet that includes the NMA. And, if fuel prices skyrocket, the group has a stack of neo orders...
- A330 - Pretty similar arguments to the B737s. Just refurbished, and competitive in all markets they serve. The east-west flying is a useful hedge if VA bring in flat beds with their MAX10s. B787s will replace some of the international flying in the medium term, and the NMA has the potential to pick up east-west, triangle, Tasman and thin regional routes.
- B747 - On the way out. (Sadly, but all good things must end.)
- A380 - Only halfway through their life, and highly competitive against both B77W and B777X/A35K... If they can be filled. See Leeham's for the CASK/RASK analysis. QF's challenge will be to keep them full even as it moves away from a hub-to-hub model. Perhaps some early retirements once the B777X/A350ULRs arrive.

TLDR - QF will need to up its fleet replacement in the 2020s, but there's not a clear case to begin replacing any particular fleet sooner (other than the B747s).
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 04:27
  #465 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Is that the wee one’s amazing game plan , withhold investment in Mainline, cut, cut , cut, until it dies , and then Phoenix the business back with everybody on vastly reduced pay and conditions ?
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 05:53
  #466 (permalink)  
 
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Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
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It’s clear to me you don’t work for Qantas. I’ve worked for Qantas for nearly two decades
So you can only criticise if you work for them?
I care about him as much as he would care about me.
That's the point. He should care about you. But he doesn't. He locked you out for two days to teach you a lesson. That's why he needs a security detail.
Most pilots at Qantas don’t particularly like the management or think they are doing a very good job. I’m in this bucket myself.
So you agree with Rated De
You can then go to Boeing and Airbus with your multi billion dollar cheques and buy hundreds of efficient twins,
Qantas did. It's just that they bought them for another airline.
all the partners at KPMG (the auditors)
Lots of companies pass audits, up until the day they go bankrupt.
​​​​​​​Buys some new jets
Joyce has not bought a single jet for QF.
$26 million he got last year
Yet the staff's pittance is tied to EBA agreements and won't be paid until then.
​​​​​​​record profits
Imagine how much more profitable the company could have been, if the CEO's last eight years had been spent making decisions that benefited the company long term, rather than the select few at the top short term.
put your passion into action
Unfortunately, no one else in QF senior management does.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 06:23
  #467 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Originally Posted by JJJ01 View Post
Sorry but I feel compelled to come out of the woodwork
I prefer reading his contributions over those of many others. All actions thus far have the innate quality of looking like they legally undermine Australians - and in my opinion they do. Cut and paste this to practically every department in mainline and one can understand the perpetual criticism. His tenure has been one of destruction by way of subsidiarisation. The 789 to lhr and everything about it including the history, is a good case from an industrial perspective. Basically, the criticism in my opinion has its merits.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 00:43
  #468 (permalink)  
ebt
 
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
Imagine how much more profitable the company could have been, if the CEO's last eight years had been spent making decisions that benefited the company long term, rather than the select few at the top short term.
While I'm not going to defend every action of QF management, this statement seems to deny reality. How can a company be more profitable if its costs keep rising above CPI and competition is increasing? Stripping out layers of management, cutting unprofitable routes, adding more seats to aircraft and losing the older, less efficient jets have cut costs and ultimately made it more sustainable. I fail to see how not taking those actions (and many more) can enhance profits. If there was a way that everything could be kept as it was eight years ago and Qantas could still be one of the most profitable carriers in the world, I'd be fascinated to hear it.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 01:35
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ebt View Post
Stripping out layers of management, cutting unprofitable routes, adding more seats to aircraft and losing the older, less efficient jets have cut costs and ultimately made it more sustainable. I fail to see how not taking those actions (and many more) can enhance profits. If there was a way that everything could be kept as it was eight years ago and Qantas could still be one of the most profitable carriers in the world, I'd be fascinated to hear it.
Oh dear..... They have ripped the guts out of Qf, spent any money they haven't spent on themselves on Jetstar, haven't upgraded anything (they've downgraded everything), to the best of my knowledge haven't made a singe investment decision that would benefit Qantas, haven't ordered a single new jet and 'invested' billions in share buybacks to line their own pockets. And that's just for starters. I wouldn't put the current management of Qf in charge of anything anywhere near as complex as a school tuck shop - and only then with constant adult supervision. Qantas management for the last 15 years has been an abject lesson in what NOT to do.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 03:17
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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From 2009 to 2015 Singapore Airlines made an aggregate net profit after tax of $3.5 billion; Cathay Pacific $4.8 billion; and Air New Zealand $898 million.

Qantas in the same period lost $2.1 billion but its CEO earned almost 50 per cent more than Singapore Airlines' CEO.
Do some creative accounting, and Qantas is suddenly profitable.
When Joyce became CEO of QF, Jetstar had 43 aircraft, and QF had 188. By 2015 JQ had 118, and QF 117. Where do you think the money was being spent? Perhaps those unprofitable routes that "had" to be dropped could have been made profitable if a desperately ailing QF mainline had bought those 75 more efficient aircraft for itself instead of a subsidiary?
Joyce is on the hustings telling all and sundry about how his team have just now magically "discovered" the B787 and how it will be the saviour of Qantas, despite the fact that they received some 5 years ago, and GAVE them to someone else!
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 09:13
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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But the crux of the matter is that JQ doesn’t and couldn’t make money without those efficient aircraft!
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 01:10
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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And Big Brother's Head Office accounting practices. Tell me, how much money does JQ Intl actually make from their 11 B787's? You won't find it in the Annual Report.

Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 10th Jan 2019 at 01:24.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 02:34
  #473 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
And Big Brother's Head Office accounting practices. Tell me, how much money does JQ Intl actually make from their 11 B787's? You won't find it in the Annual Report.
It's almost as if they were a State Secret. I'm sure they don't get out of the locked safe more than a few times a year...
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 04:21
  #474 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
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And Big Brother's Head Office accounting practices. Tell me, how much money does JQ Intl actually make from their 11 B787's? You won't find it in the Annual Report.
It would be interesting to compare this to what profit they might make if deployed as a domestic 767 replacement on golden triangle for peak services (in mainline colours). As has been mentioned previously, narrow body services are chockers and replicate resources when multiple flights leave at the same time. And that's not counting lost revenue for potential pax who miss out due to no seats available. The 788 is used widely in Japan on peak high density domestic services.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 05:22
  #475 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by Buckshot View Post
It would be interesting to compare this to what profit they might make if deployed as a domestic 767 replacement on golden triangle for peak services (in mainline colours). As has been mentioned previously, narrow body services are chockers and replicate resources when multiple flights leave at the same time. And that's not counting lost revenue for potential pax who miss out due to no seats available. The 788 is used widely in Japan on peak high density domestic services.
That’s where this weapon comes in, the MAX 10. QF are usually about a decade behind most others ordering the latest and greatest so expect it early 2030s.

Virgin will probably be looking at MAX retirements before QF even gets the keys to number 1.


Last edited by wheels_down; 10th Jan 2019 at 05:34.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 07:00
  #476 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by Buckshot View Post
It would be interesting to compare this to what profit they might make if deployed as a domestic 767 replacement on golden triangle for peak services (in mainline colours). As has been mentioned previously, narrow body services are chockers and replicate resources when multiple flights leave at the same time. And that's not counting lost revenue for potential pax who miss out due to no seats available. The 788 is used widely in Japan on peak high density domestic services.
Extra capacity does not always equal extra profits. It has been the rationalisation of capacity growth that has seen the increase in yields and profits.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 22:46
  #477 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks JJJ01,

I too have pondered why Rated De would spend so many hours on here attacking Qantas & its Management. In the end I came to the conclusion Rated De is just another egotist who hasn't achieved what they believe they were owed in life so has to feed the yearning in an anonymous forum.

Just another Narcissist.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 23:01
  #478 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
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As opposed to yourself, taking advantage of the same anonymous forum purely to attack someones character while adding nothing to the debate?
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 23:02
  #479 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
Thanks JJJ01,

I too have pondered why Rated De would spend so many hours on here attacking Qantas & its Management. In the end I came to the conclusion Rated De is just another egotist who hasn't achieved what they believe they were owed in life so has to feed the yearning in an anonymous forum.

Just another Narcissist.
What drivel

Last edited by dragon man; 11th Jan 2019 at 02:08.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 23:31
  #480 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
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Originally Posted by theheadmaster View Post
Extra capacity does not always equal extra profits. It has been the rationalisation of capacity growth that has seen the increase in yields and profits.
Also, just because JAL and ANA use 787s for shorthaul routes, it doesn't mean they are great aircraft for those routes. The 787 is optimised for longhaul flying - QF would be carrying a huge amount of unnecessary structure and weight to use it on triangle routes. I'm sure it could still turn a profit; I'd be sceptical that it would be the best use of the aircraft, however.

Joyce has even stated that the A330 is not ideal for triangle or transcontinental flying, which is why QF is interested in the NMA proposal - better capacity than a 737/320, but optimised for shorter routes.
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