Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Perth to London

Old 28th Aug 2018, 15:45
  #381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 815
I did this trip to London and back recently. It was full both ways. It was pretty uncomfortable in zoo class, stuck in a middle seat, but still better than going through Dubai and their wretched security (having a metal hip this makes a big difference).

Preferable to Emirates particularly in the quality of the food and not having to sit trapped, often for about an hour, behind a mountain of plastic wrappers getting horribly dehydrated because EK only serve water and juice in tiny containers and nobody can get out of their seats. Is this deliberate? (Thanks you QF for the water bottle provided) . The entertainment choices were great and I had no jet lag at all.

The only complaint was arriving at LHR at 5am and having at least three plane loads of travellers being dealt with by just ONE immigration officer for non EU passports, (no E gate for non EU people) I was in that queue for about 1.5 hours and I was near the front. So not a great time of day to arrive, Heathrow need to get their act together there.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2018, 22:16
  #382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: bunkeronthe1st
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
Fatguyinacoat,

If you call someone out you have to have to give a reason. You cant just rant that someone is full of it.

This just makes you look like a troll
Maybe you're right pilotchute. If someone comes here to postulate how clever they are, it's best to read your evidence first.
Fatguyinalittlecoat is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2018, 07:33
  #383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,244
Postulate is a big word for you.
pilotchute is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2018, 08:24
  #384 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: bunkeronthe1st
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
Postulate is a big word for you.
most certainly, but Iím sure youíre clever enough to understand the irony.
Fatguyinalittlecoat is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2018, 05:56
  #385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,244
I only understand the Alanis Morissette version sorry!
pilotchute is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 05:06
  #386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,021
Perth to London for 4 days with 45 economy seats blocked out. One flight in the last week arrived with 2600 kilos of fuel at the gate.
dragon man is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 05:13
  #387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 326
how many minutes holding does that give a 789? Seems like a 350 may be more suited to the route
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 05:20
  #388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by TurningFinalRWY36 View Post
how many minutes holding does that give a 789? Seems like a 350 may be more suited to the route
I think you havenít noticed, QF donít own any A350s.😂😂😂
wombat watcher is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 05:30
  #389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,021
Originally Posted by TurningFinalRWY36 View Post
how many minutes holding does that give a 789? Seems like a 350 may be more suited to the route
Just above the 30 minute fixed fuel reserve. Freezing fog, not for me.
dragon man is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 05:42
  #390 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by wombat watcher View Post


I think you havenít noticed, QF donít own any A350s.😂😂😂
well that is obvious, just pointing out the better performance of the 350. Landing with just above FR is cutting it fine
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 05:58
  #391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Perth to London for 4 days with 45 economy seats blocked out. One flight in the last week arrived with 2600 kilos of fuel at the gate.
fuel at the gate is not an issue. It is fuel at the end of the landing roll that is the measure. Besides, it is the nature of the operation. Every sector is a challenge.
wombat watcher is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 08:06
  #392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,680
Originally Posted by TurningFinalRWY36 View Post
well that is obvious, just pointing out the better performance of the 350. Landing with just above FR is cutting it fine
If the blocked out seats at 45 detailed in the other post are accurate then that route is well beyond the optimum for the aircraft.
Not having maximum payload available is not unusual but actively further restricting available seating is highly indicative that the route is beyond the aircraft. Simply put the weight of the aircraft curtailed in such a way to reduce inflight consumption etc. Getting the right aircraft for a route is a significant investment in specialist knowledge.
  • With QF devoid of fleet choices a 'hail Mary' Little Napoleon route appears more PR than economics.
  • Losing 19% of the ASK capacity makes the route all the more marginal.
As postulated in this thread, given the severity of European winter weather, be it cloud or wind often affecting the availability of LHR, crew duty limits and other metrics may well start to impact dispatch reliability.
Once it becomes common knowledge that the route is not dispatch reliable the passengers make more solid alternative arrangements. The next few months will be interesting to watch. Will Little Napoleon quietly move the route back through Singapore? An eight year circle back to the starting point?

At the end of the landing roll with minimum reserves (give or take) may be clever for the bean counter safely digesting plum pudding, but leaves very little margin for any number of factors to stack up against an operating crew.
Rated De is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 08:14
  #393 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 802
Originally Posted by wombat watcher View Post


fuel at the gate is not an issue. It is fuel at the end of the landing roll that is the measure. Besides, it is the nature of the operation. Every sector is a challenge.
Or more to the point, the FOB when you press TOGA on short final. Then again, it is LHR, where the controllers would get you quickly back on final without delay or drama.

Freezing fog is more of a problem for departures than arrivals, unless the taxiways are getting greasy. I have had the pleasure of a 45 minute runway to gate navigation exercise in winter ops.
Australopithecus is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 10:12
  #394 (permalink)  
Roo
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Sydney.NSW.Australia
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
If the blocked out seats at 45 detailed in the other post are accurate then that route is well beyond the optimum for the aircraft.
...
  • Losing 19% of the ASK capacity makes the route all the more marginal..
45 seats blocked is correct. However nowhere near 19% of the ASK. 70 business and premium seats are of course full and provide a disproportionate % of the revenue. Opposite direction is full seats and will no doubt have fr8 on board too.

The reason for seat blocks is not so much the LHR WX , but the enroute winds at the moment. 35kts headwind for 8000nm adds well over an hour to the flight time. Last four PER LHRs I did were under 17 hour while three days ago it took us over 18 hours. Still slid down final with over 5 ton and three alternates in hand.

Once the headwinds abate in a few days I expect the seats will become available again.

No freezing fog in balmy London at the moment. It is 7 degrees. Don’t know what all the fuss is about.

Roo is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 10:28
  #395 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... Still!
Posts: 3,439
Don’t know what all the fuss is about.
There was no fuss!
Capt Fathom is online now  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 11:23
  #396 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,680
45 seats blocked is correct. However nowhere near 19% of the ASK
Well actually it is. Understand the revenue premium to which you allude, the revenue mix is not 'counted' with an ASK, it is simply the seat count times the stage length.
From the outside yield on a route is a very inexact science as there is simply no way to know the prices paid, the upgrades and redemption against other centres in the airline itself (like Frequent Flyer)
The point of the post is that if there are environmental conditions leading to a targeted weight reduction then the 'range-payload' mix attempted is sub-optimal. This suggests an aircraft way beyond optimum route selection criteria.
No doubt in 'milder weather' it can arrive carrying a full ASK load, but with headwinds or a range of weather variables impacting an arrival such a situation reduces the available options the aircraft is beyond the designed optimum. Airline network planners refer to the sweet spot. This is not it.
Points for trying, but square pegs and round holes. Qantas lacked the appropriate fleet.
These environmental variables are the things that aircraft selection and route optimisation is intended to alleviate. That such circumstances can see an aircraft, with substantial ASK reduction, perhaps also with fuel on conclusion of landing roll approaching statutory minimum is from an aircraft evaluation and suitability perspective, an aircraft operating well beyond optimum.
Rated De is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 16:20
  #397 (permalink)  
Roo
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Sydney.NSW.Australia
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post

There was no fuss!
Exactly. I was referring to the fuss from the sidelines.
Roo is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 16:26
  #398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,302
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
there is simply no way to know the prices paid, .
Indeed. And all sorts of other variables. For example. with a few days to go, with a pretty good wx forecast and knowing the typical booking pattern, it may be decided by revenue management that those last 45 seats will never be sold. So book 4 tons of freight, and block those seats from reservations. Did it in the end go out with further empty seats anyway ? Were any bookings actually turned away ?
WHBM is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 16:40
  #399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 1,057
None of it matters as long as they can get more money from a specific flight than it costs them to run it it - all the science of Route Planning and fleet optimization are great for initial planning but at the end of the day it's cash flow that counts, even if the aircraft is sub-optimal.

If you are the only player and can make it pay all the other stuff just tells you is how much more or less you might have made with a different fleet choice.
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 19:37
  #400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 470
When I worked in reservations (up until 2 months ago) we were frequently having to call out up to 80 pax on QF8 due to payload constraints.

I'm sure I didn't see this level of approbation for those offloads.

My most inventive alternative was DFW-YVR-SYD on AC!

Yes QF has the wrong fleet

B747-8 for long heavy haul
A330 in whatever guise (but only one model) for regional (Asia/NZ/Transcon etc)
A320 for domestic
Chris2303 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.