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IR Scare Tactics Plan SH EBA/LH EBA

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IR Scare Tactics Plan SH EBA/LH EBA

Old 20th Feb 2018, 07:53
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jc31 View Post
For a start how much we are going to get paid.
Same as F100 by the sound of it from management at the meeting.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 08:05
  #102 (permalink)  
Keg

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I did get some insight into the ‘787 replacing the 744’ scenario. 6 787s will actually increase capacity based on the plans of how the entire 787 network will fit together. IE they’ll get more hours out of the 787s to more destinations than they will he equivalent number of 744s. It’s therefore likely they’ll actually need more crew for those 6 787s than they currently have for the similar number of 744s they’ll replace. (Not sure of exact numbers).
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 08:14
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
I did get some insight into the ‘787 replacing the 744’ scenario. 6 787s will actually increase capacity based on the plans of how the entire 787 network will fit together. IE they’ll get more hours out of the 787s to more destinations than they will he equivalent number of 744s. It’s therefore likely they’ll actually need more crew for those 6 787s than they currently have for the similar number of 744s they’ll replace. (Not sure of exact numbers).
This is done by increasing utilisation . The only problem is 1) reliability and 2) you have departure times that are best for the companies utilisation not for the benefit of the paying punter. The best example of this was the London to Melbourne service arriving late evening , it has now gone and was never popular with the punters. Another example is operating two services out of Lax to Melb only two hours apart , instead of the 380 been close to full and making money you have a 380 and a 787 both operating I’d say at break even or under. The reason that Sfo from Melbourne is only 5 a week is that they have to get the 787s from Melb to Lax for maintenance. It’s simply brilliant. As some else posted the tide is going out and we are seeing whose naked.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 08:33
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by angryrat View Post
If we see any result out of this it will take a huge change in attitude from these gentlemen and the ones above. They will need to take a consultive approach as opposed to their combative or just ignoring the pilot body. They may even get surprised.
This is SO true.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 10:10
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fjholden View Post
And for what it’s worth, Jetstar and QantasLink should be just as concerned as mainline, 2 A320’s is now 6...
I’d be more worried if I was Cobham crew in PER if that number is correct.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 11:17
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that no-one seems to have picked up on this little fact.

Qantas maintain that the entire reason for moving from B737 to a QFlink branded ex-Jetstar A320 flown by Network is that they need an all-economy high capacity jet on those routes. Apparently, that is what the “customer” is seeking on those routes.

Qantas B737’s have 30 rows, the first 3 are business. Total pax 174.

Jetstar A320’s have 30 rows, all economy. Total pax 180.

They are setting up an entirely new A320 operation under the Network AOC, with it’s associated massive costs, training etc, just to accommodate an extra 6 pax, because the customer needs an extra 6 pax? That is what we are being asked to believe.

Please consider.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 11:41
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Not discrediting that at all, and Im certainly not an 'Angel' - but the A320 with low pressure tyres can get into many Pilbara strips that the 73 can't.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 12:55
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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I’m not a qantas mole by any imagination. And I was working so didn’t attend any meeting. But the flying these aircraft will do will be low utilisation, as are the F100s. Anyone who transits through Perth will notice 30% of them are on the ground at any time.
How old are the a320 they are getting? 12/13 years ? Jetstar have some spare, it’s not like Qantas can spare any 737s. Older aircraft don’t have to be flogged to pay the bills.
My final point is the Qantas guys are kicking and screaming. Who else is at threat? The eastern/ Sunstate guys have had the Jet dangled over each EBA. Are the 717 days numbered. And the Network guys, well you can kiss any chance of anyone getting picked up by mainline anymore if the six aircraft becomes true.
Qantas is offering the stick rather than the carrot. Shut up or we won’t buy the shiney 787 anymore, if they said here’s another 6 perhaps we’d give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially since they are only replacements anyway.

Last edited by Aussie Fo; 20th Feb 2018 at 12:57. Reason: Corrctling mistakes after getting in at 1am
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 13:04
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chadzat View Post
Not discrediting that at all, and Im certainly not an 'Angel' - but the A320 with low pressure tyres can get into many Pilbara strips that the 73 can't.
That may be true, but that is not a factor here.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 13:21
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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My final point is the Qantas guys are kicking and screaming. Who else is at threat?
Just because Qantas guys have decided to kick and scream doesn’t mean others can’t kick and scream. I don’t get your point.

But hang on a minute, are they actually kicking and screaming?

Not from where I sit. The only people kicking and screaming are QF executives.

Qantas made some changes that potentially undermine their employees. Their employees called a meeting to discuss it. Qantas went to the media and claimed they have cancelled an aircraft order as a result. Then they went to the employees and said they won’t order any more aircraft until you guys get in line.

Wow, can we have Oldmeadow back please? At least his strategy made some kind of sense...
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 21:15
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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My final point is the Qantas guys are kicking and screaming. Quote.

No, completely wrong. AIPA had a well attended SGM, because they can see the potential (with 99 A320/321, whatever the mix) for Network to undermine Qlink, Jetstar and Mainline. AIPA also realised how Mainline "engagement" is again heading southward due to feeble excuse of Management blaming the pilots for no additional orders. As has been mentioned a hundred times before, AIPA can take no action outside the Bargaining Period, we just want a "please explain", not the Propaganda that works on the Campus to all the kids who have been in the industry 5 minutes.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 21:33
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Hahaha! I have several mates working for Network and I can tell you without a doubt that they are not falling over themselves to fly an A320, not for peanuts anyway. Network pilots along with most other pilots in Aus are very aware of how desperate airlines all over the world are becoming. How many hold files are totally full with hundreds more begging for a shot? Not one!! The beauty of this is that the pilots are about to completely control the situation in an industrial sense without having to apply for industrial action and its all because airlines think they are invincible. The airlines have effectively autofarked themselves. Hillarious!!!
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 22:21
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Having close associations with several in 'senior roles' in HR/IR one thing is universal; They assume unlimited supply in most industry strategy. I would digress but a big part of over the top immigration levels is to stop organised labour leveraging supply shortage for better terms and conditions. It is also a very dark art, where vulnerability, perceived status and loyalty are leverage points.

As we have stated repeatedly, the IR/HR model at Qantas is at best 'accommodating.' That means the unions are there, because statute allows it, not because the company want it. As such at every turn, union input is not welcomed or sought out. To our mind, it appears the unions believed things had changed, perhaps because the words were different.


For whatever reason and it may be as simple as they are very aware of a supply shortage, that the goading for a conflict is seen as the only strategy they really know how to execute.

The beauty of this is that the pilots are about to completely control the situation in an industrial sense without having to apply for industrial action and its all because airlines think they are invincible. The airlines have effectively autofarked themselves. Hillarious!!!
Wow, can we have Oldmeadow back please? At least his strategy made some kind of sense...
Without unlimited supply they simply do not understand that the model must change, hence what appears a double down...

Pilots need do nothing in response to the goading as it is limited supply and their own lack of strategic management oversight with respect to people and capital responsible for this..
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 22:50
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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I completely agree with Rated De, the best thing we can do is.... "nothing"....or maybe a few "Buy them, don't buy them, it's not our problem."
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 23:09
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Recently published

UN aviation agency warns of looming pilot shortage

MONTREAL, Canada - Hundreds of thousands of pilots will need to be trained to meet growing demand for air transport around the world by 2036, the UN aviation agency said Tuesday.

International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) secretary general Fang Liu said in a speech in Montreal that the number of commercial flights and passengers are forecast to double in the next 15 years while the number of pilots and other airline workers is falling due to attrition.

Liu pointed to "the inevitable demographics of aging populations, lowering birth rates, and other attrition factors" for the work force contraction.

In addition, aviation is facing increased competition from other sectors "for up-and-coming talent," she said.

"Aviation has to do a much better job of both attracting and retaining the skilled workers and managers it requires in the decades ahead," she concluded.

The ICAO said at least 620,000 pilots will be needed by 2036 to fly commercial aircraft with 100 or more seats. Eighty percent of those pilots have yet to be trained, it added.

"The story is the same with respect to the future air traffic controllers, maintenance personnel, and other technicians needed," Liu said, adding that "these are just a few of (the) literally hundreds of direct and indirect aviation‐related career categories which will be impacted by attrition‐related trends."

Driving the increase in air transportation is an increase in tourism and booming online retailing that relies on the sector to deliver its wares.

Some 4.1 billion people fly each year, and one-third of the world's cargo is now airlifted.

In addition to labor challenges, Liu said civil aviation must also brace for more airport congestion.

"For example, no fewer than 24 international airports across Africa today will be saturated and unable to handle more traffic in just two year's time," Liu said.
UN aviation agency warns of looming pilot shortage | ABS-CBN News

Original speech source document ICAO, point #49
Address by the Secretary General of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Dr. Fang Liu,


620,000 pilots in the next 18 years. Sit on your hands. One of the few countries that is actually anticipating this is China.

There were lots of murmurings & noise about "Sustainable Competitive Advantage". It's right there, no pilots, no show. Doesn't get more fundamental than that.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 23:23
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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I see the immediate problem now is the EBA negotiations currently underway. Management are desperately trying to lock pilots down for just one more agreement while they figure out what to do next. Once the 2018 EBA’s expire, you can guarantee it will be years till the company is dragged back to the table. Any sub standard agreement allowed by the pilots to pass in the next few months will represent the lowest agreement for the next 5 or more years.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 23:30
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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They have run out of money buying out the JQ 320 leases (from another accounting trick) and can’t afford anymore Gamechangers.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 23:31
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
I see the immediate problem now is the EBA negotiations currently underway. Management are desperately trying to lock pilots down for just one more agreement while they figure out what to do next. Once the 2018 EBA’s expire, you can guarantee it will be years till the company is dragged back to the table. Any sub standard agreement allowed by the pilots to pass in the next few months will represent the lowest agreement for the next 5 or more years.
EBA "negotiations"..if you can call it that, more like AIPA talking to a brick wall...start in August.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 23:49
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
I see the immediate problem now is the EBA negotiations currently underway. Management are desperately trying to lock pilots down for just one more agreement while they figure out what to do next. Once the 2018 EBA’s expire, you can guarantee it will be years till the company is dragged back to the table. Any sub standard agreement allowed by the pilots to pass in the next few months will represent the lowest agreement for the next 5 or more years.
Time is on our side.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 23:50
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fjholden View Post
I completely agree with Rated De, the best thing we can do is.... "nothing"....or maybe a few "Buy them, don't buy them, it's not our problem."


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