So you need a new fleet Leigh?
Perhaps this is purposeful to meet other objectives, which is worse still. But they seem reluctant to take a stand on their position regarding the Fairwork Act and the Project Sunrise aircraft which could put this issue to bed. So it’s left to people on PPRUNE (who aren’t qualified) to at least partially educate those with no idea. AD has put in print to the pilots why Network could not expand at the expense of Mainline flying. His reason...the FAIRWORK ACT as described above. It is very difficult for QF management (not impossible but very expensive, brand damaging, and impractical) to not have Mainline pilots flying the Project Sunrise aircraft. As it’s been said...if it wasn’t so hard, the transfer of business would have already been done!
Last edited by crosscutter; 28th May 2019 at 00:10.
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It’s great to see scare tactics at EA time.
Here are the facts.
The 767 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under LH award.
The 747-4 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under LH award.
The A330 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under LH award and 747 classic pay plus 5%.
The A380 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under award. Above 747 rates.
787 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots. Loss of a few key parts of award but regardless flown by QF pilots.
There are are numerous sections of the Fair Work legislation that are inconvenient for the scare campaign.
Primarily section 311.
(1) There is a transfer of business from an employer (the old employer ) to another employer (the new employer
if Sunrise flies under the Qantas name or flies to Qantas destinations then the Fair Work covers existing employees.
If Alan or earlier CEOs could get away with this it would of happened a long time ago. Yes they could start a new entity, but it would be an associated entity as stated in 311 and any employee would transfer on his or her existing EA.
In short. It’s too costly for nil gain. If the premise of the new entity is to undermine terms and conditions it’s illegal!
Under the Fair Work Act, an enterprise agreement that already covers the new employer would NOT cover a transferring employee who is covered by a ‘transferable instrument’, e.g. an enterprise agreement with the old employer. This is referred to in the act as the default position.
In order for a company’s enterprise agreement to apply to transferring employees, an employer would need to make application to the FWC (s318), seeking an order that the company’s enterprise agreement should apply to transferring employees.
Good for a scare campaign in negotiations. I’ve not once heard or read this threat officially ever from any CEO or manager.
If you provide written evidence either put it up or shut up.
Most of it comes from gullible people who are fed fake rumours to aid a company negotiating position.
Here are the facts.
The 767 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under LH award.
The 747-4 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under LH award.
The A330 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under LH award and 747 classic pay plus 5%.
The A380 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots under award. Above 747 rates.
787 was ordered. Flown by Qantas pilots. Loss of a few key parts of award but regardless flown by QF pilots.
There are are numerous sections of the Fair Work legislation that are inconvenient for the scare campaign.
Primarily section 311.
(1) There is a transfer of business from an employer (the old employer ) to another employer (the new employer
if Sunrise flies under the Qantas name or flies to Qantas destinations then the Fair Work covers existing employees.
If Alan or earlier CEOs could get away with this it would of happened a long time ago. Yes they could start a new entity, but it would be an associated entity as stated in 311 and any employee would transfer on his or her existing EA.
In short. It’s too costly for nil gain. If the premise of the new entity is to undermine terms and conditions it’s illegal!
Under the Fair Work Act, an enterprise agreement that already covers the new employer would NOT cover a transferring employee who is covered by a ‘transferable instrument’, e.g. an enterprise agreement with the old employer. This is referred to in the act as the default position.
In order for a company’s enterprise agreement to apply to transferring employees, an employer would need to make application to the FWC (s318), seeking an order that the company’s enterprise agreement should apply to transferring employees.
Good for a scare campaign in negotiations. I’ve not once heard or read this threat officially ever from any CEO or manager.
If you provide written evidence either put it up or shut up.
Most of it comes from gullible people who are fed fake rumours to aid a company negotiating position.
As correctly asserted, had it been feasible they would have ipso facto, already tried it.
One could deem the 'terminal decline' precisely that: A narrative to provide the impetus necessary to support a risky strategy to transfer a lot of their international ASK to JQ.
It is worth remembering that the QSA 1992, was the original reason that the fossil, Leigh Clifford said was the reason for the re-equipment delays. That the QSA 1992 prohibits facilities et al being 'outsourced' in aggregate greater than 50% is a limit that globalists detest. Stopping the wholesale sell off and outsourcing are special acts of parliament and indeed your work place laws. The Qantas International brand is still flying, albeit in a far reduced capacity, despite their effort.
The risk comes from the reality that cash flow is very fickle for an airline.
Cash flow shortages driven by non-compliant employees is a huge risk for it take little time for investors and other stakeholders to notice.
Diversions, fuel, medical and just not answering the phone, the list is endless and all have an operational cost.
Thus, a stalking horse that serves their agenda is a common as the sun rising in the east.
Qantas desperately need a new fleet. They need a new direction too, with airline specialist managers. Fort Fumble lacks these types of managers and should one appear they very quickly lose their heads.
Last edited by Rated De; 28th May 2019 at 07:22.
Dragon man is on the money.
Much of the above is a legal summation of that part of the act S318 from a major legal/IR practice. It is not mine!
In fact there are more sections of the act which protect employment and prohibits transmission of business to other entities.
As the wise have noted, If Qantas were able to have crewed many of the last four Long Haul aircraft types to cheaper startups they would have! Can anyone provide any official written evidence from Qantas management or CEO that suggested Qantas 787 flying may be crewed by another entity? No because it was not legal.
It is the many requirements of the Fair Work Act and the sale act that have stopped them. Not any love of pilots from Qantas.
In fact if you transfer to Jetstar you need to sign an acknowledgement that you are waiving your S318 rights.
Its a negotiating technique of feeding disinformation unofficially to influence a company position.
Its a repeat of shiny metal jet syndrome same as the last EA. I can’t stop many getting played for fools however.
This time Qantas has turned around, made consecutive record billion dollar profits, paid record bonuses, share price is $5.50 not 0.92 cents. It’s up 375%. In the last half year alone Qantas had enough cash to buy back 378 million dollars worth of shares.
We have a global pilot shortage and the Qantas group can’t fill pilot positions in group entities.
As far as a negotiation for an eventual A380 replacement type, which will be flying Qantas aircraft to Qantas destinations, it is only pilots talking down the strongest position they have held for a long time.
I’m hoping from some stronger leadership from AIPA as pilots are their own worst enemies industrially.
Much of the above is a legal summation of that part of the act S318 from a major legal/IR practice. It is not mine!
In fact there are more sections of the act which protect employment and prohibits transmission of business to other entities.
As the wise have noted, If Qantas were able to have crewed many of the last four Long Haul aircraft types to cheaper startups they would have! Can anyone provide any official written evidence from Qantas management or CEO that suggested Qantas 787 flying may be crewed by another entity? No because it was not legal.
It is the many requirements of the Fair Work Act and the sale act that have stopped them. Not any love of pilots from Qantas.
In fact if you transfer to Jetstar you need to sign an acknowledgement that you are waiving your S318 rights.
Its a negotiating technique of feeding disinformation unofficially to influence a company position.
Its a repeat of shiny metal jet syndrome same as the last EA. I can’t stop many getting played for fools however.
This time Qantas has turned around, made consecutive record billion dollar profits, paid record bonuses, share price is $5.50 not 0.92 cents. It’s up 375%. In the last half year alone Qantas had enough cash to buy back 378 million dollars worth of shares.
We have a global pilot shortage and the Qantas group can’t fill pilot positions in group entities.
As far as a negotiation for an eventual A380 replacement type, which will be flying Qantas aircraft to Qantas destinations, it is only pilots talking down the strongest position they have held for a long time.
I’m hoping from some stronger leadership from AIPA as pilots are their own worst enemies industrially.
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Dragon man is on the money.
Much of the above is a legal summation of that part of the act S318 from a major legal/IR practice. It is not mine!
In fact there are more sections of the act which protect employment and prohibits transmission of business to other entities.
As the wise have noted, If Qantas were able to have crewed many of the last four Long Haul aircraft types to cheaper startups they would have! Can anyone provide any official written evidence from Qantas management or CEO that suggested Qantas 787 flying may be crewed by another entity? No because it was not legal.
It is the many requirements of the Fair Work Act and the sale act that have stopped them. Not any love of pilots from Qantas.
In fact if you transfer to Jetstar you need to sign an acknowledgement that you are waiving your S318 rights.
Its a negotiating technique of feeding disinformation unofficially to influence a company position.
Its a repeat of shiny metal jet syndrome same as the last EA. I can’t stop many getting played for fools however.
This time Qantas has turned around, made consecutive record billion dollar profits, paid record bonuses, share price is $5.50 not 0.92 cents. It’s up 375%. In the last half year alone Qantas had enough cash to buy back 378 million dollars worth of shares.
We have a global pilot shortage and the Qantas group can’t fill pilot positions in group entities.
As far as a negotiation for an eventual A380 replacement type, which will be flying Qantas aircraft to Qantas destinations, it is only pilots talking down the strongest position they have held for a long time.
I’m hoping from some stronger leadership from AIPA as pilots are their own worst enemies industrially.
Much of the above is a legal summation of that part of the act S318 from a major legal/IR practice. It is not mine!
In fact there are more sections of the act which protect employment and prohibits transmission of business to other entities.
As the wise have noted, If Qantas were able to have crewed many of the last four Long Haul aircraft types to cheaper startups they would have! Can anyone provide any official written evidence from Qantas management or CEO that suggested Qantas 787 flying may be crewed by another entity? No because it was not legal.
It is the many requirements of the Fair Work Act and the sale act that have stopped them. Not any love of pilots from Qantas.
In fact if you transfer to Jetstar you need to sign an acknowledgement that you are waiving your S318 rights.
Its a negotiating technique of feeding disinformation unofficially to influence a company position.
Its a repeat of shiny metal jet syndrome same as the last EA. I can’t stop many getting played for fools however.
This time Qantas has turned around, made consecutive record billion dollar profits, paid record bonuses, share price is $5.50 not 0.92 cents. It’s up 375%. In the last half year alone Qantas had enough cash to buy back 378 million dollars worth of shares.
We have a global pilot shortage and the Qantas group can’t fill pilot positions in group entities.
As far as a negotiation for an eventual A380 replacement type, which will be flying Qantas aircraft to Qantas destinations, it is only pilots talking down the strongest position they have held for a long time.
I’m hoping from some stronger leadership from AIPA as pilots are their own worst enemies industrially.
What price they pay is up to the pilots.
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Dragon man is on the money.
Much of the above is a legal summation of that part of the act S318 from a major legal/IR practice. It is not mine!
In fact there are more sections of the act which protect employment and prohibits transmission of business to other entities.
As the wise have noted, If Qantas were able to have crewed many of the last four Long Haul aircraft types to cheaper startups they would have! Can anyone provide any official written evidence from Qantas management or CEO that suggested Qantas 787 flying may be crewed by another entity? No because it was not legal.
It is the many requirements of the Fair Work Act and the sale act that have stopped them. Not any love of pilots from Qantas.
In fact if you transfer to Jetstar you need to sign an acknowledgement that you are waiving your S318 rights.
Its a negotiating technique of feeding disinformation unofficially to influence a company position.
Its a repeat of shiny metal jet syndrome same as the last EA. I can’t stop many getting played for fools however.
This time Qantas has turned around, made consecutive record billion dollar profits, paid record bonuses, share price is $5.50 not 0.92 cents. It’s up 375%. In the last half year alone Qantas had enough cash to buy back 378 million dollars worth of shares.
We have a global pilot shortage and the Qantas group can’t fill pilot positions in group entities.
As far as a negotiation for an eventual A380 replacement type, which will be flying Qantas aircraft to Qantas destinations, it is only pilots talking down the strongest position they have held for a long time.
I’m hoping from some stronger leadership from AIPA as pilots are their own worst enemies industrially.
Much of the above is a legal summation of that part of the act S318 from a major legal/IR practice. It is not mine!
In fact there are more sections of the act which protect employment and prohibits transmission of business to other entities.
As the wise have noted, If Qantas were able to have crewed many of the last four Long Haul aircraft types to cheaper startups they would have! Can anyone provide any official written evidence from Qantas management or CEO that suggested Qantas 787 flying may be crewed by another entity? No because it was not legal.
It is the many requirements of the Fair Work Act and the sale act that have stopped them. Not any love of pilots from Qantas.
In fact if you transfer to Jetstar you need to sign an acknowledgement that you are waiving your S318 rights.
Its a negotiating technique of feeding disinformation unofficially to influence a company position.
Its a repeat of shiny metal jet syndrome same as the last EA. I can’t stop many getting played for fools however.
This time Qantas has turned around, made consecutive record billion dollar profits, paid record bonuses, share price is $5.50 not 0.92 cents. It’s up 375%. In the last half year alone Qantas had enough cash to buy back 378 million dollars worth of shares.
We have a global pilot shortage and the Qantas group can’t fill pilot positions in group entities.
As far as a negotiation for an eventual A380 replacement type, which will be flying Qantas aircraft to Qantas destinations, it is only pilots talking down the strongest position they have held for a long time.
I’m hoping from some stronger leadership from AIPA as pilots are their own worst enemies industrially.
short flights long nights
Have you ever seen the Emirates Cockpit Crew rest?
Located at the rear of the aircraft near the L5 door (777). It's actually the cabin crew rest that EK pays Boeing to modify for two extra berths. The Pilots crew rest is the smallest of all the bunks and theres no ability to sit upright as the only space is the bunk. If you're over 6ft you can't sleep entirely flat out. All this was done at the behest of the boss who wanted a vaulted ceiling in First.
Mind thats better than the 380 with the bunks in the middle of the Economy cabin on the older birds or below decks on the newer ones where once again you can't sleep properly if you're over 6ft. The company knows about the issues but just shrugs its shoulders and says they're looking into solutions. Meanwhile its been about 2 years and still no solutions found.
Mind thats better than the 380 with the bunks in the middle of the Economy cabin on the older birds or below decks on the newer ones where once again you can't sleep properly if you're over 6ft. The company knows about the issues but just shrugs its shoulders and says they're looking into solutions. Meanwhile its been about 2 years and still no solutions found.
Last edited by Rhodes13; 28th May 2019 at 22:51.
But, just as important IMO is the crew complement, a cockpit toilet and seperate crew rests.
That's not to say it couldn't be improved on the 350.
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given your hostility to your employer, and given your response, maybe it would round out your attitude if you would research how QF set the standard for tech crew rest facilities.
I feel we are wandering off the track here, what I would like is two seperate crew rests or more depending on the agreed crew compliment , a bed to allow a 1.9 meter pilot to lie flat comfortably, proper noise insulation, in flight entertainment available. The company will squeal like a stuffed pig , but bad luck that’s the cost of doing business.
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I feel we are wandering off the track here, what I would like is two seperate crew rests or more depending on the agreed crew compliment , a bed to allow a 1.9 meter pilot to lie flat comfortably, proper noise insulation, in flight entertainment available. The company will squeal like a stuffed pig , but bad luck that’s the cost of doing business.
They would of course actually need to order aircraft first.
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Whether Fort Fumble seek yet another internal war with staff remains a valid concern.
That their focus is inwards tell an observer everything about their 'strategy'
If one considers how much effort it takes to run a strategically positioned airline, the capital and the know-how it begins to make sense why the focus is instead internal, as it is far easier and requires less vision.
It is also, with a growing shortage of qualified pilots extremely short sighted.
In the meantime, Qantas need a new fleet.
That their focus is inwards tell an observer everything about their 'strategy'
If one considers how much effort it takes to run a strategically positioned airline, the capital and the know-how it begins to make sense why the focus is instead internal, as it is far easier and requires less vision.
It is also, with a growing shortage of qualified pilots extremely short sighted.
In the meantime, Qantas need a new fleet.
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https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...a-japa-458638/
Another order coming up for JQ perhaps.
This could be the aircraft that allows JQ to send their 787s to QF and return to a single type operation.
Another order coming up for JQ perhaps.
This could be the aircraft that allows JQ to send their 787s to QF and return to a single type operation.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...a-japa-458638/
Another order coming up for JQ perhaps.
This could be the aircraft that allows JQ to send their 787s to QF and return to a single type operation.
Another order coming up for JQ perhaps.
This could be the aircraft that allows JQ to send their 787s to QF and return to a single type operation.
It was always the plan. The 788s back to mainline to replace the stolen generation as they run out of hours. JQ to figure out how they can cram 400 seats into a 789.
Personally I think JQ do low yield mass transport well. The A321s are a no brainer, and would work well point to point to various singlet and thong destinations. Further cementing our enviable reputation abroad.
One thing is is for sure, let’s hope they put bigger water and waste tanks in. 5 hours in and once the various craft beers are gone, it’s not uncommon to wonder if the waste system is going to play ball till stumps. I suppose there is always the sink......
Personally I think JQ do low yield mass transport well. The A321s are a no brainer, and would work well point to point to various singlet and thong destinations. Further cementing our enviable reputation abroad.
One thing is is for sure, let’s hope they put bigger water and waste tanks in. 5 hours in and once the various craft beers are gone, it’s not uncommon to wonder if the waste system is going to play ball till stumps. I suppose there is always the sink......
Hey GG, I went JQ once as a punter and never again, it was the WORST flight I have ever done. I will happily pay the asking price for any other airline to be rid if that s&%t.
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Here you go Little Napoleon, apparently no longer do you need to employ people to invent project names, have super secret strategy and desperately hope Chairman's lounge and upgrades keep the daily rags full of QF column inches.
You can actually go and order a real aircraft. They apparently exist!
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-qanta-458641/
You can actually go and order a real aircraft. They apparently exist!
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-qanta-458641/