So you need a new fleet Leigh?
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that these options have been considered, ergo they are a subject of discussion.
RealityCzech, Cabin Crew Management have already been advised that the Perth B737 base will be closing, to be replaced by Network A320's.
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I find it so.."ironic"..that an Angel can write on here and call us liars.
Cabin Crew Management have already been advised that the Perth B737 base will be closing, to be replaced by Network A320's.
Sadly it appears the source of our discussion was correct.
Sadly it appears the source of our discussion was correct.
Maybe the cabin crew base is closing. Probably not. To close a pilot base is very messy, and involves a lot of cost to QF. I’d say highly unlikely, however these idiots do take joy in the misfortune of their staff, so nothing is beyond them!
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And yes, it will cost a lot if they close the base...
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Definitely true. What I’ve heard is, all Perth based 737 captains will be forced into the Adelaide base (even if their seniority could hold something else) and all Perth Based FO’s will be forced into SO positions on the 787 in Perth, both groups will then be frozen for the duration of their careers as the company likes 457 Visa cards in preference to Mastercards. Definitely true, heard if from a BBQ sauce.
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Cabin Crew Management have already been advised that the Perth B737 base will be closing, to be replaced by Network A320's.
Thanks in advance
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Definitely true. What I’ve heard is, all Perth based 737 captains will be forced into the Adelaide base (even if their seniority could hold something else) and all Perth Based FO’s will be forced into SO positions on the 787 in Perth, both groups will then be frozen for the duration of their careers as the company likes 457 Visa cards in preference to Mastercards. Definitely true, heard if from a BBQ sauce.
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We await the learned explanation of the "value of JQ"
In the interim we have considered the impact of the now 99 A320 aircraft commencing delivery and the rotation of the older airframes into Network Aviation. Considering the funding options and delivery timetable it may well be pertinent to consider the fiscal impact of what was reported to be AUD$9.5 billion on Qantas. With a combinaiton of shorter term and longer duration debt, Qantas could conceivably face additional funding costs that didn't appear even 18 months ago. With over two billion expended on share buybacks it is plausible that Qantas lacks requisite funds. Given the usual Airbus funding mechanisms, and the impact of IFRS16 on Qantas' balance sheet it is entirely plausible that new 787 aircraft are deferred as Qantas has committed to delivery of these A320. This makes the role of Network Aviation even more important. If correct, then our source's suggestion of more aircraft to Network seem entirely plausible; they have to go somewhere as they have economic life.Our assessment of JQ is that is suffering from scale deficiency, we await RealityCzech's insightful quantitative analysis as to why this thesis is wrong.
Further there remains the outstanding A380 aircraft (8 in total) we understand the penalties are substantial if Qantas reneges on delivery. We understand Qantas can avoid contractual obligations if the A380 ceases production but otherwise is caught in an enforceable undertaking.
It may well be that Qantas need, but will not get additional replacement efficient aircraft as capital has already been expended.
With contract season open, is it time to blame the staff?
In the interim we have considered the impact of the now 99 A320 aircraft commencing delivery and the rotation of the older airframes into Network Aviation. Considering the funding options and delivery timetable it may well be pertinent to consider the fiscal impact of what was reported to be AUD$9.5 billion on Qantas. With a combinaiton of shorter term and longer duration debt, Qantas could conceivably face additional funding costs that didn't appear even 18 months ago. With over two billion expended on share buybacks it is plausible that Qantas lacks requisite funds. Given the usual Airbus funding mechanisms, and the impact of IFRS16 on Qantas' balance sheet it is entirely plausible that new 787 aircraft are deferred as Qantas has committed to delivery of these A320. This makes the role of Network Aviation even more important. If correct, then our source's suggestion of more aircraft to Network seem entirely plausible; they have to go somewhere as they have economic life.Our assessment of JQ is that is suffering from scale deficiency, we await RealityCzech's insightful quantitative analysis as to why this thesis is wrong.
Further there remains the outstanding A380 aircraft (8 in total) we understand the penalties are substantial if Qantas reneges on delivery. We understand Qantas can avoid contractual obligations if the A380 ceases production but otherwise is caught in an enforceable undertaking.
It may well be that Qantas need, but will not get additional replacement efficient aircraft as capital has already been expended.
With contract season open, is it time to blame the staff?
There are also quite a few pilots who would like nothing more than to see the Perth base close, B737, A330, B787. Heard it a thousand times, junior guys “stealing” commands by taking Perth base, “stealing” the good flying, Perth base is so inefficient, B787 will never work, etc, etc. These types love continuously spreading rumours of the base’s demise!
There are also quite a few pilots who would like nothing more than to see the Perth base close, B737, A330, B787. Heard it a thousand times, junior guys “stealing” commands by taking Perth base, “stealing” the good flying, Perth base is so inefficient, B787 will never work, etc, etc. These types love continuously spreading rumours of the base’s demise!
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Hypothetical questions are raised in my mind. Why can't the soon to be ex JQ A320's be sold on the second hand market instead of being rolled into Network? Is it likely there a difference between the book value & the achievable resale value? If there is a difference, could this be the the source of the capital issues?
Lots of assumptions in those thought bubbles, just musing.
Lots of assumptions in those thought bubbles, just musing.
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There are also quite a few pilots who would like nothing more than to see the Perth base close, B737, A330, B787. Heard it a thousand times, junior guys “stealing” commands by taking Perth base, “stealing” the good flying, Perth base is so inefficient, B787 will never work, etc, etc. These types love continuously spreading rumours of the base’s demise!
The only stealing here is by Network and Jetconnect..
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1. Network A320s to be crewed by Jetstar pilots.
Maybe in the short term, on LWOP for training purposes, but there wouldn’t be any point in the long term. The whole point of Network is cheaper pilots.
2. 457 visa application for Qantas mainline pilots.
I would doubt it, because there is no point. They would never be able to prove a shortage of suitable applicants. Recruitment will only continue near current levels if Qantas actually order more aircraft.
3. Supposed new and indefinite training freeze applying to Qantas 737 pilots.
Well, that would be certainly high on their wish list (not indefinite, but to be able to restrict the movement). The training load through the 737 is said to be currently beyond manageable levels, causing some flight cancellations and idle aircraft. They would like to increase 737 utilisation but they can’t due lack of crew.
Unfortunately for them, the current industrial agreement prevents them from increasing freeze periods. There is a new EBA under negotiation. I have no doubt they will make some claim about freeze periods. But AIPA and the pilots will have to agree.
Just because Rated De is mates with Alan Joyce and Alan said to Rated over dinner “we are going to freeze all the 737 pilots” doesn’t make it so.
At least we’ve finally got something they want. Maybe AIPA will be able deliver a decent EBA this year.
Maybe in the short term, on LWOP for training purposes, but there wouldn’t be any point in the long term. The whole point of Network is cheaper pilots.
2. 457 visa application for Qantas mainline pilots.
I would doubt it, because there is no point. They would never be able to prove a shortage of suitable applicants. Recruitment will only continue near current levels if Qantas actually order more aircraft.
3. Supposed new and indefinite training freeze applying to Qantas 737 pilots.
Well, that would be certainly high on their wish list (not indefinite, but to be able to restrict the movement). The training load through the 737 is said to be currently beyond manageable levels, causing some flight cancellations and idle aircraft. They would like to increase 737 utilisation but they can’t due lack of crew.
Unfortunately for them, the current industrial agreement prevents them from increasing freeze periods. There is a new EBA under negotiation. I have no doubt they will make some claim about freeze periods. But AIPA and the pilots will have to agree.
Just because Rated De is mates with Alan Joyce and Alan said to Rated over dinner “we are going to freeze all the 737 pilots” doesn’t make it so.
At least we’ve finally got something they want. Maybe AIPA will be able deliver a decent EBA this year.
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Emirates - Higher
Etihad - Higher
Qatar - Higher
Cathay - Local pilots only are cheaper
BA - Higher
China - Local pilots only are paid less
What does South American airlines have to do with it? I'm sure the stream leader has all the appropriate figures for flight deck comparisons for your perusal...
Last edited by SkyScanner; 1st May 2018 at 12:08.
JQ to QF737 transfers
Any truth to a rumour I heard that all JQ pilots have been offered 2 year LWOP arrangement at QF under short haul award for 737 FO positions in PER, ADL and MEL....? With the option to stay at QF at the end of the two year period?
Can’t see a huge uptake of this from JQ pilots, most of that vintage are either 787 CP’s or senior 320 CP’s. Why come over and be flogged on the maggot for significantly less coin?
For the hope of staying at mainline?maybe, but at the seniority numbers they come in at they, like all new hire pilots getting quick slots on the 737 operation, will be waiting around 10 years before they see a wide body FO slot, and east coast command ????
With all that is going on here lately I’m beginning to appreciate why a number of pilots that left here to go to J* on LWOP stayed there!
and yes, Qantas does need a new fleet, but I’m starting to feel it’s not mainline pilots in the current form that will be doing the flying.
For the hope of staying at mainline?maybe, but at the seniority numbers they come in at they, like all new hire pilots getting quick slots on the 737 operation, will be waiting around 10 years before they see a wide body FO slot, and east coast command ????
With all that is going on here lately I’m beginning to appreciate why a number of pilots that left here to go to J* on LWOP stayed there!
and yes, Qantas does need a new fleet, but I’m starting to feel it’s not mainline pilots in the current form that will be doing the flying.
Last edited by ANCDU; 1st May 2018 at 20:31. Reason: fat thumb!!
Only pilots eligible for the MOU could go, and they could only fill the JQ MOU slots on the QF list. However, those 6 slots were withdrawn as the MOU only specified command positions. No FO. It’s entirely plausible that JQ FO’s have been offered what you said, but it would still mean going through the recruitment process, and the seniority number would be the next one available on the list (somewhere around 2300).
Currently the JQ MOU slots are at the level where you’d get a 737 FO anywhere, or a PER 330 FO. But as I said, MOU was intended for command only.
Currently the JQ MOU slots are at the level where you’d get a 737 FO anywhere, or a PER 330 FO. But as I said, MOU was intended for command only.