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So you need a new fleet Leigh?

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So you need a new fleet Leigh?

Old 27th Feb 2018, 03:50
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Rated DE et al,
The ABC piece is a statement of the bleeding obvious.

With the QANTAS investment grade credit rating, it will have zero problem financing a modern fleet at extremely good rates.

So the question must be asked, is the present management actually managing the airline in the best interests of their shareholders, as required by the Corporations Act 2001.

The various references to the QANTAS Sales Act is a furphy, in my opinion.

Tootle pip!!
I really wish the Media would stop calling it the Qantas Sales Act - it's the Qantas SALE Act.
Shock and horror aside at media inaccuracy of course... ;-)
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 03:31
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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The current good state of Qantas sure can't last!
Bonuses all round? surely not.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/q...s-dnata-2018-4

Qantas is selling its catering businesses to dnata, an aviation services company that is part of the Emirates Group, a code-sharing partner.


Under the deal, dnata will supply catering for Qantas flights for an initial period of 10 years, and Qantas will continue to work with key suppliers in menu design and development.


“Customers will continue to enjoy Qantas’ premium service, including unique Rockpool-designed menus for First and Business passengers, showcasing the best of Australian produce for millions of travellers each year,” says Qantas Domestic CEO Andrew David.


Dubai-headquartered dnata already operates 11 catering facilities in Australia, trading under the dnata catering brand, recently rebranded from Alpha Flight Services. dnata employs more than 4000 people in Australia across its catering, cargo and ground handling businesses.


The agreement is subject to approval from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC).


Qantas’ catering businesses include wholly-owned subsidiaries Q Catering Limited and Snap Fresh Pty Limited.


Q Catering has centres in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth, with its largest airline customer being Qantas.
Snap Fresh is a meal production plant in Queensland, specialising in Australian-made frozen meals for airlines and the healthcare and food retail industries.


Andrew David says the sale will enable Qantas to partner with a global leader in inflight catering and prioritise investing in the airline.
So it's not core business and they are going to use funds to invest in the airline, hopefully that's mainline.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 10:43
  #123 (permalink)  
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So it's not core business and they are going to use funds to invest in the airline, hopefully that's mainline.
No dear chap, declining yields and all, mean the free cash flow has declined a bit.

Maintaining momentum in our 'Executive bonus (LTIP) scheme is hard work.

Those bloody share buy backs are expensive work!

Qantas need a new fleet.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 13:02
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Another part of the airline that was world class, reduced to nothing and being sold of for short term cash injection.

Like the engine testing and overhaul, once a world leader training the likes of SIA, Cathay, ANA, JAL, Lufthansa, now they send the aeroplanes away and just get them to do the maintenance
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 18:09
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
Another part of the airline that was world class, reduced to nothing and being sold of for short term cash injection.

Like the engine testing and overhaul, once a world leader training the likes of SIA, Cathay, ANA, JAL, Lufthansa, now they send the aeroplanes away and just get them to do the maintenance
They are selling the family silver. I donít think I could have chartered a better course for destruction than the one being taken! I read Andrew Davidís triumphant announcement of that with utter disbelief. Itís like the Sudetenland volunteering to annex itself to Germany before WWII!

Anyone notice the [email protected] like focus on APU fuel usage? Laughable they are concerned about fuel with the fleet theyíve got but Iíve been told now by two very different sources that itís little to do with fuel, and a lot to do with the fact Qf donít own the engines any more but have sold and lease them - on an hourly rate...

Cant change the A in [email protected] for some reason!!
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 12:56
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
Anyone notice the [email protected] like focus on APU fuel usage? Laughable they are concerned about fuel with the fleet theyíve got but Iíve been told now by two very different sources that itís little to do with fuel, and a lot to do with the fact Qf donít own the engines any more but have sold and lease them - on an hourly rate...
VJ - itís called Power By the Hour and has been around for a very long time. Look it up, nothing nefarious, a great way to de-risk a high risk asset as well as pull some predictability into your spending.

Yes I know, Iím an angel cos I didnít knock the company and bang on about blah, blah, blah. 🙄
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 13:14
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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One needs to look at history regarding the sale of flight kitchens. Airlines were forced into establishing their own flight kitchens as in the day, no one offered the services they required. So to meet their demand, flight kitchens became part of airlines. The world has moved on and kitchens have long been considered to be not the core business of an airline. For the same reason, one could suggest that's why airlines don't own oil refineries.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 18:06
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Arthur - itís the lies, not the decision per se that is the issue!

Ken - As long as there are meals and beverages consumed on aircraft, there is a business case to supply them. As with Engineering and everything else that was once absolutely worlds best standard, these entities have been decimated, Qantas has offloaded anything that is attractive to others, most likely for a relative pittance. If there is a single dollar to made in a year, Qantas should be making it and not immediately offloading it so a major competitor can then use that dollar against them.

For Qantas to be failing to buy aircraft (are aircraft considered Ďcoreí to an airline??) AND offloading major assets like catering - to itsí primary competitor, no less - the situation must be extreme. Is it extreme because there is no money left for Joyce to maintain his exorbitant salary/boasting rights, or is the airline starting to grind to a halt through gross mismanagement (crewing/outsourcing etc)?
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 20:32
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
For the same reason, one could suggest that's why airlines don't own oil refineries.
Deltas oil refinery

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...pay-off-a.aspx

Along with the largest Maintenance facility in North America.

Aviation MRO Services, Aircraft Maintenance & Engine Overhaul | Delta TechOps

Not being a smart arse. Just pointing out that some ‘non-core’ businesss can work.

Last edited by JPJP; 13th Apr 2018 at 20:47.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 02:49
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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For a similar reason, QF used to do the lion's share of ground handling for international carriers coming to SYD/MEL/BNE etc... utilising assets that would generally otherwise be idle in between QF flights... Nevertheless a few years ago they decided this was non-core as well, forcing these carriers into the arms of the competition. A similar thing happened with Q Catering and a couple of big contracts not too long ago.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 03:07
  #131 (permalink)  
Keg

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Grrr

Originally Posted by Arthur D View Post
VJ - itís called Power By the Hour and has been around for a very long time. Look it up, nothing nefarious, a great way to de-risk a high risk asset as well as pull some predictability into your spending.
Yeah. That Ďde-riskí worked so well when one blew up on the wing of an A380 ex SIN. Not sure it worked real well for predictability of spending after that either.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 03:35
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Sure Keg, but there's insurance for that.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 04:18
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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“Customers will continue to enjoy Qantas’ premium service, including unique Rockpool-designed menus for First and Business passengers, showcasing the best of Australian produce for millions of travellers each year,”
No they won't. They will 'enjoy' whatever Dnata can supply for the lowest possible price Qantas can negotiate, particularly down the back, where it is hardly a "premium service".
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 05:36
  #134 (permalink)  
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but there's insurance for that
The problem with outsourcing is that control of process is lost.
Whilst it is low fruit to the accountant to sell what was once owned, there are sound process control reasons for it. Qantas catering was low fruit, William Meaney was involved in the stripping of Swiss Air and its catering, selling Gate Gourmet to TPG (Texas Pacific Group) with whom he still has connections...Isn't he leaving the board now?


That ‘de-risk’ worked so well when one blew up on the wing of an A380 ex SIN. Not sure it worked real well for predictability of spending after that either.
Keg is absolutely correct. No one remembers that it was a Rolls Royce Trent 900. The media splashed pictures of a Qantas logo, not RR. Lovely Olivia was busy defending Qantas, not Rolls Royce.

Mr Joyce made reference to the 'responsibility for the engines not being a core responsibility of Qantas'. Nice Alan, real modern corporate speak. Had it ended worse he would have increased the private security detail to keep him safe.

Qantas still need a new fleet

Last edited by Rated De; 14th Apr 2018 at 06:00.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 21:43
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Keg, what would the difference have been if QF had owned the engines on the A380?

Was the PBH contract renegotiated after that event, not in QFís favour?

As previously said, insurance covered the damage to the airframe, exactly what itís for.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 23:19
  #136 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by Arthur D View Post
Keg, what would the difference have been if QF had owned the engines on the A380?
If we’d owned them an maintained them we would have been well aware that there were serious issues with a number of them across the fleet. This was an incident who’s direct cause was due to lack of Qantas oversight of the engines hanging on the wing.


Originally Posted by Arthur D View Post
As previously said, insurance covered the damage to the airframe, exactly what it’s for.
Lol. I suspect Oriana’s comment was more about sarcasm than anything else. Brand damage? Grounding of the entire A380 fleet for weeks? How about the risk of a hull loss? Sure, no worries. Insurance has it covered!
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 23:21
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post

Qantas still need a new fleet
No it doesn't need one. It can also become more of a virtual airline instead of putting billions into new QI fleet. Basing your plan and thinking on the false premise that QI will inevitably be purchasing new aircraft is a mistake.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 23:34
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 73to91 View Post
Bonuses all round? surely not.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/q...s-dnata-2018-4


Qantas is selling its catering businesses to dnata, an aviation services company that is part of the Emirates Group, a code-sharing partner.
Spot on, short term thinking, sell off the family farm, get a big bonus, retire with a Golden Handshake

Its the New Guy's problem to make money when you are paying a fortune for outsourced services that you used to own.
Of course the first thing the new guy does is write down the value of everything, declare a huge loss, and blame the outgoing guy.

The execs keeps getting the big bonuses, while the company is in a race to the bottom, and bankruptcy.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 02:30
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RealityCzech View Post
No it doesn't need one. It can also become more of a virtual airline instead of putting billions into new QI fleet. Basing your plan and thinking on the false premise that QI will inevitably be purchasing new aircraft is a mistake.

We keep hearing about these ĎVirtual Airlineí business models, but I canít really think of one off hand. Where you might say codeshare, etc; all airlines use codeshare and the like to give its customers a slightly improved route network, this is hardly said business model. Every airline still flies its own metal on the routes where it can get the loads it needs and make money... people want to get the product / brands they pay for, and if they donít get it theyíll go elsewhere.

Qantas is going to be increasingly competing with airlines that have already had more modern and efficient fleets for a decade. Most are already taking a step-change again, leaving Qantas at risk of being an entire generation behind, AND playing catch-up.

Qantas employees are constantly told they are too expensive, or that their Western Terms and conditions are uncompetitive in an Asian region, yet when it comes to making serious strides where costs can REALLY be impacted in competing with SQ and Cathay and the like, the current management seem to drag their feet.

Unfortunately for the IR bullies, using aircraft orders will no longer be effective as a tool in an industrial battle. The staff (pilots/engineers/and others), are now increasingly aware that either Qantas gets serious about a fleet renewal program, or it gets annihilated by itís competitors who have been serious about it for a decade or more already. Itís only a matter of time before the share market becomes aware of this as well.

Alan Joyce has been at the helm for almost TEN years, and I can't think of one new aircraft order made in that time... but the time has come. They need to outline a fleet renewal program for the next decade, and it needs happen relatively soon.

Rated De is correct.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 03:07
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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The aircraft that Qantas needs -big long range twins- both have delivery constraints that seem a bit unstable. There are big 777-9 and A350-1000 orders from the ME3 that could easily shrink or delay which could free up slots. If they don’t Qantas is really screwed.

There are circa 100 Airbus orders for the various JQ entities...if a conversion of some of those to 350s is even possible the first delivery would be 70 months away, assuming the Airbus order book stays stable. There are earlier 777 slots but then what happens with the 100 A320/1 order? Take them all?

In six years QF will lose all of the 747s, the early 330 deliveries will be time-ex or close to it and a lot of 737s will be worn out too.

Regarding virtual airlines: If Qantas had no planes what the hell would a customer even need them for? I might do that myself since I don't own any aeroplanes either. Hey everybody! Look at me...I'm an airline! Weeeeeee!
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