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Say Goodbye To Australian Regionals

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Say Goodbye To Australian Regionals

Old 29th Dec 2017, 19:58
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Say Goodbye To Australian Regionals

This looks ominous...

Counter-terrorism crackdown at airports could threaten regional flights - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

This has the potential to bankrupt all turboprop regional operators.If you’re a pilot for a regional, it’s probably time you applied to Virgin/Qantas/Tiger/Jetstar.

At least there’ll be more slots and less delays into the capital cities for the major airlines!
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Old 29th Dec 2017, 20:34
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A rather blunt, yet effective, mechanism for addressing the regional pilot shortage.
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Old 29th Dec 2017, 23:34
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I think their death will lie more in their ticket prices and shitty service ( delay information and booking flexibility).

REX Saab 340 prices V Siver Airways Saab 340 prices (to be fair add tax and baggage fee)

A428642F-CFD1-4E4F-ACF6-6093D5B0D69D.jpg
B92D3088-1420-4856-9F63-162FDBA07A90.jpg
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 06:00
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Comparing an Aussie Saab 340 to an American is not a fair comparison due to much higher airport / airway charges etc.


Nevertheless the issue of regional airport screening has been brewing for some time.


Dropping from 30T to "above 20T" then to "20T and above" has always been a slippery slope to all aircraft operating into capital cities requiring security screening!


The RAAA and REX had a great opportunity to get on the front foot with this about five years ago and then three years ago, but took the view it did not concern them, so left it alone. Indeed REX publicly took on Dubbo, "stop screening charges at Dubbo" is still on the front page of their website.


The reality was security screening was inevitable, but unlike other countries we did not fight the winnable battle to get network funding and pricing. So each local airport has the CAPEX to set-up security screening, the ongoing costs to run security screening, and then recover that charge from a finite number of relatively price sensitive passengers.


Why should a passenger departing Brisbane pay about $2.30 yet a passenger from some regional centre pay $15??? And once we get into the smaller Saab ports maybe $25 or $30 per pax?


The security benefit is for all so it should be network priced for all.


If everyone paid $4 or $5 under a network priced model it would not be such a big deal.
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 06:35
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Seriously if everyone paid $4 or $5 dam even $50, I could in under 6 months at any airport, make a joke of that "security" for I expect less than $250,000 if I wanted to.


And nothing will prevent a 9/11 type event happening but in a different form in the future.

Have not had a ASIC in years, certainly been airside in that time - but never asked. Its all a joke and revenue/political illusion of safety to supply money to companies that then give political donations.
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 09:38
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"Have not had a ASIC in years, certainly been airside in that time...."

You make the argument FOR tighter security in your post!

But I am guessing that the arguments are simply about who is going to pay rather than the fact of increased security, thus doubt it is about decimating the travel plans of those in the bush. Pretty sure Barnaby would be on his high horse if that was the case.

Security issues, love it or hate 'em, they, and the multi-billion Security industry is here for the long term.
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 13:45
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
..Have not had a ASIC in years, certainly been airside in that time - but never asked. Its all a joke and revenue/political illusion of safety to supply money to companies that then give political donations.
I got air side at Sydney Airport without even an AVID let alone an ASIC. Got within 100m of the GG walking down the steps of the RAAF BBJ without even a 2nd look. Yet when I take my kids on holiday I get pinged by security at the airport for having a pair of nail clippers in my carry-on. I saw a frail old dear in her wheel chair getting a thorough going over by 2 heavy handed airport security bozos simply intent of justifying their own self importance. And as for the bomb sniffing machine operator, that is just an exercise keeping up with her KPI.

It's a total farce, it's a complete joke, and probably hasn't made us any safer for the effort.. And it's cost millions, all passed on to the traveling public via security surcharge in the ticket price.
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 22:26
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gulliBell…

The Senate Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport – March 2017 received evidence that a 2003 report into aviation security at Sydney Airport found that:

‘Twenty per cent of persons holding those identification cards enabling access to the sterile areas were found to have criminal convictions, and about half of those were serious convictions, including drug trafficking, assault and other misdemeanours.’
Also, and to much concern of the Committee, that:

‘What was most worrying was the degree of identity fraud in obtaining [ASIC] cards. There were a number of individuals who had cards in multiple names. There were at least eight people who were unidentifiable by any known database. They did not exist. They were not on the electoral roll. They did not have drivers licences. They did not own cars.’
The lack of consistency in airport screening practices also causes concern, because it results in increased risk levels and compromised security and safety outcomes, both for airport employees and the travelling public.

Achieving the highest standards of aviation safety requires consistency. The decentralised model of security control and the increasing use of sub-contractors in this field has led to inconsistent security practices. This inconsistency exists between contractors and sub-contractors at the same airport as well as between airports across Australia. (source: Senate Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport – March 2017)

Concentration of people at security clearance points is also a major concern.

The AIPA identified to the Committee that the security process results in ‘largely stagnant masses of people’ with limited freedom of movement, and the head of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's Border Security Program, argued that arrival and departure halls are now the most vulnerable areas for targeting of attacks on airports, noting that passenger terminals have:

'…few if any security measures before check-in or in the crowds of family, friends…waiting in arrival halls.'
Also:

‘The aim of security responses need to focus on reducing the concentrations of people prior to security checks. Similarly, in arrival halls the aim must be reducing the concentrations of uncleared people and goods.’
And:

‘Until such time as Australia completes the establishment of uniform screening, we must presume that a serious threat to the safety of aircraft exists and that our security dollars are not being allocated on the basis of properly determined risks.’
So the weaknesses (read: SERIOUS THREATS) to the aviation security system in Australia are well known to the Government gulliBell, but whether they will be addressed in a meaningful and sensible manner remains anyone’s guess.
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 22:53
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
I got air side at Sydney Airport without even an AVID let alone an ASIC. Got within 100m of the GG walking down the steps of the RAAF BBJ without even a 2nd look. Yet when I take my kids on holiday I get pinged by security at the airport for having a pair of nail clippers in my carry-on. I saw a frail old dear in her wheel chair getting a thorough going over by 2 heavy handed airport security bozos simply intent of justifying their own self importance. And as for the bomb sniffing machine operator, that is just an exercise keeping up with her KPI.

It's a total farce, it's a complete joke, and probably hasn't made us any safer for the effort.. And it's cost millions, all passed on to the traveling public via security surcharge in the ticket price.
Look on the bright side one of those security bozos may have stopped a PAX with bad intentions from getting on one of your flights..
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 22:55
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Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
I think their death will lie more in their ticket prices and shitty service ( delay information and booking flexibility).

REX Saab 340 prices V Siver Airways Saab 340 prices (to be fair add tax and baggage fee)

Attachment 3889
Attachment 3890
PAX numbers!!!! is what makes the difference! You cant compare the price of a flight from Sydney - Broken hill to Ft Lauderdale - Bimini lol Who the hell wants to go to Broken hill ???
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Old 30th Dec 2017, 23:18
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Australia again leads the world in an aviation race to the bottom!
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 03:30
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Originally Posted by tomcat264 View Post
Look on the bright side one of those security bozos may have stopped a PAX with bad intentions from getting on one of your flights..
A different class of security bozo operates at the Sydney VIP FBO, unlikely to encounter any riff-raff PAX with bad intentions boarding their GIV or BBJ.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 08:31
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I would wait to see exactly what of the proposed changes actually make it into the regulatory change process. The wheels of motion turn very slowly in this regard. The Govt is going to be very conscious of the impact on increased security at the regional airport level. A lot in the industry agree that a network screen charge as opposed to location specific is the way to go. Good luck though getting competent screeners for outback airports that have one RPT service 3 or 4 days a week

I notice no one has raised the question of non screening of high capacity closed charter operations. There is a gaping hole if ever there was one.

On the question of inconsistencies at various screening points, that is being directly addressed through the introduction of mandatory accreditation for all current screening officers. Also The introduction of Cert 2 in Transport Security Protection to replace the Cert 2 in Security operations which is more tailored to gate watchmen and pub bouncers.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 18:59
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Australia has the huge advantage that it has largely stopped the "wrong sort of people" entering the country for some time. Malcolm Turnbull should be encouraged to keep up the the efforts of his predecessors before Australia descends to the same level of security chaos as Europe. Australia needs immigrants and is an attractive destination for emigrants worldwide - but the Australian government should enhance the restrictions to certain nationalities and ethnic groups to ensure that Australia remains a fair, fearless and decent country.
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Old 31st Dec 2017, 22:48
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Originally Posted by Trim Stab View Post
Australia has the huge advantage that it has largely stopped the "wrong sort of people" entering the country for some time. Malcolm Turnbull should be encouraged to keep up the the efforts of his predecessors before Australia descends to the same level of security chaos as Europe. Australia needs immigrants and is an attractive destination for emigrants worldwide - but the Australian government should enhance the restrictions to certain nationalities and ethnic groups to ensure that Australia remains a fair, fearless and decent country.
Many agree with you. Not politically correct though.
More pertinant is the lack of profiling of SECURITY STAFF! Sydney International you would be hard to find anyone of European or Easr Asian heritage.
Potential for problems there are immense!
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 10:11
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Hiwaytohell
Why should a passenger departing Brisbane pay about $2.30 yet a passenger from some regional centre pay $15??? And once we get into the smaller Saab ports maybe $25 or $30 per pax?
I believe in places like Esperance, Albany and Busselton it was significantly higher. That’s one of the reasons why VARA eventually pulled out.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 10:16
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Originally Posted by harbourskipper View Post
Total nonsense.


You both should be ashamed.

Anyone who subscribes to the Alan Jones/Ray Hadley mentality should be barred from a security clearance. They do more harm then good.

You nutters dont speak for the majority - you just think you do.
Tell that to the Australian Crime Commission who flagged that very issue about 5 years back regarding the cultural background of persons and corporate entities obtaining security licenses.
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Old 1st Jan 2018, 15:59
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Originally Posted by YPJT View Post
Tell that to the Australian Crime Commission who flagged that very issue about 5 years back regarding the cultural background of persons and corporate entities obtaining security licenses.
Yep, wood for trees.
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 01:48
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Is this the sort of thing you are talking about ?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/new-airp...curity-concern

New airport security concern

A former shuttle bus driver at Sydney Airport is reportedly a member of a violent Indonesian group with suspected links to banned terrorist groups Jemaah Islamiah and al-Qaeda.
Updated Updated 22 August 2013


The Australian newspaper says Dance Marmince, who uses the alias Mohammad Darimi, heads a small group of Laskar Jihad members in Sydney and has been co-ordinating fundraising efforts.

He drove airport shuttle buses transporting passengers around Sydney Airport for private bus company Kingsford Smith Transport from about 1999.

But the company says he quit last November, after on-and-off employment over the past five years.

Mr Darmince's former boss, John Koolman says the man only had access to public areas of the airport.

The story follows revelations that Bilal Khazal - a man the American Central Intelligence Agency has linked to Osama Bin Laden - worked as a Qantas baggage handler at Sydney's international terminal during
the lead-up to the Olympics.

The newspaper says Mr Darmine is an Australian citizen with an Australian passport who has lived in the Lakemba area in south-west Sydney for the past 20 years.

He is reported to have been in Australia last month, but has since returned to Indonesia.

###
Source: SBS
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Old 2nd Jan 2018, 02:22
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Metro Man,
I just found the old document from the ACC and it was dated 2008. So clearly they knew these problems were brewing long before they raised their heads. The document refers more to those actually employed in the security industry ie guards and crowd controllers. THis can in certain cases include aviation screeners although they no longer need to actually hold the security officer licence to be screener.
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