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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 10:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Melbourne
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Are the aircraft supposed to be operated by Jetstar for Network in Qlink colours or are the A320s going to be given to and operated internally by Network. The email we got at JQ was a little ambiguous.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 10:18
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Nope. They'll be in Jetstar colours operated by Jetconnect crew seconded to a mainline AOC supported by Network management under QLink control. I think the new CEO is from ASA?
Rostering will be done out of Saigon by Jetstar Pacific Ops controllers with a brand new EAP funded and manned by CAsA staff.
It'll be neat.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 10:23
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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they will be painted in qlink colours just like the little fokkers
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 10:50
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I'll simplify my question, Jetstar pilots or network pilots will be flying these planes?
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 11:07
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Originally Posted by Airbus A320321 View Post
I'll simplify my question, Jetstar pilots or network pilots will be flying these planes?
Operated by network pilots
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 11:08
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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2 ex Jetstar A320s. Operated by Network, dependent on regulatory approvals.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 11:19
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
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Originally Posted by The Green Goblin View Post
Itís probably time for group seniority.

How itíd work. Who knows. But itís time.
Will never happen. However, if it did it would create the biggest cluster f#$k any of us have ever seen.

Simplifying all fleets and lists makes sense but there are far too many separate interests.

Hypothetically if it were to happen. Have one list based on all pilots DOJ in the group. The musical chairs would be dabilitating! Training for 5+ years to re arrange the list.
Then, again IMO, 3 levels of pay.
1. Regional Turboprop
2. Domestic narrow body (B717, F100, A320, B738)
3. International wide body (B788/9, A332/3, B747, A380)

3 levels, ensures pilots STAY on type and aren't financially dis-advantaged for doing so. This saves massive retraining costs as pilots move up the seniority list now encompassing 4000+ staff.

But again, the chances? Rather than divide and conquer you control the pilot group as one entity. You 3 EBAs, 3 AOCs, 3 of MGMT rather than how many at present?

Just my thoughts.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 22:21
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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"promotion paradise", LMFAO, I guess when you're used to 15 years to command, 13 is pretty good
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 08:55
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FOI View Post
That happens now (has been for years), itís just that itís in a F100 or B717 currently ....🙄
And itís happening more and more. Clearly that model works from a management perspective. That is what to fear for Qantas pilots.

Qantas domestic guys are paid by the flight hour. I would be nervous seeing any of those flight hours taken away.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 20:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
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Obviously many are concerned about the direction of this move by QF, who knows where it will end up. Nevertheless, as someone who has been flying the bus for some years now, you're going to love it. Such a great plane to fly, with many refinements over the years.

Enjoy!
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Old 24th Nov 2017, 00:12
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
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So, any talk of a bit of extra cheese for those in Network who will be flying the bus?

Or will the company insist that the Network Agreement covers anything and everything for the same Terms?

At the end of the day, itís exciting to get a bit of new kit, but 6months after you check to line, the view is pretty much the same. Itís nice when the view of the bank balance changes a bit as well.
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Old 24th Nov 2017, 11:46
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: GAFA
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I bit of history for those who havenít been around very long:

When the Fokker was introduced no single pilot was trained until they had signed a contract that included the F100. The tís and cís were clear from the start.

If you are trained on type with no clear idea of the tís and cís then there is no certain way of knowing what will happen in the future.

Ask questions and make absolutely certain you know where you stand. Either way seek advice from professionals in IR.

This is an exciting announcement but is VERY light on details. And itís details that make all the difference.

As for me weíll ill just sit under my glass ceiling looking up at the sky...
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Old 30th Nov 2017, 02:38
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Australia
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I wonder if this has anything to do with the WA government airfare investigation? Low fares to regional towns?
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 22:00
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Forecast to be over 800 retirements in QF Mainline alone in less than ten years.
With some massive waves of retirements due in some years.
In the past an economic shock always took care of a pilot shortage.
This one is different as so many people are leaving which puts pressure on supply that's also dwindling.
Starting to see the effects of that in many parts of the Qantas group that are used for lower cost labour.
Think the idea of this is to attempt to establish this ASAP whilst it's even possible and also to act as leverage for other awards that coincidentally are due for negotiation.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 23:36
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Originally Posted by 73qanda View Post
Nope. They'll be in Jetstar colours operated by Jetconnect crew seconded to a mainline AOC supported by Network management under QLink control. I think the new CEO is from ASA?
Rostering will be done out of Saigon by Jetstar Pacific Ops controllers with a brand new EAP funded and manned by CAsA staff.
It'll be neat.
You forgot union approved FCOMís written by Captain McSNAFU from Qlink Fleet Tech.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 07:25
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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This one is different as so many people are leaving which puts pressure on supply that's also dwindling.
The question is will they recognise anything other than a cyclical shortage?


Think the idea of this is to attempt to establish this ASAP whilst it's even possible and also to act as leverage for other awards that coincidentally are due for negotiation.
That is precisely what they are doing.




to borrow from this guy, "place one A320 with Network pilots, terrorise 1,000 Qantas pilots'.

  1. Establish the precedent.
  2. Any economic downturn drive through concessions
  3. Reactive labour representative body
  4. Ever present threat (real or imagined) that pilots will lose flying.
  5. works this time, every time
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 09:34
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like the Cobham 717 pilots did not fall for it this time.

Could be a "game changer".
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 10:57
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
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The array of legislation, the power of corporate advertising and 'executive privilege' or the Chairman's lounge mean they control the narrative.

The problem for the model is declining supply. Having studied the various responses airlines have to obtaining a necessary component, almost a strategic asset is something which is both time consuming and varied.

The reality for the O'Leary, Hogg or Joyce is that their model is fatally flawed.

It will certainly take time but as the curtain recedes it is beginning to show that the emperor had no clothes..




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Old 6th Dec 2017, 12:05
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
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Rated De, you are very good at staying "on message" and I mostly agree with you.

However, in Europe they lack a GA to draw from and still manage crew their aircraft. Cadet schemes and deferred loans will be introduced. Virgin has already experimented with cadets. Qantas also to a greater degree.

Enter a slick and well run campaign aimed at attracting the brightest and the best to help change the game.

The machine must be fed.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 21:48
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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However, in Europe they lack a GA to draw from and still manage crew their aircraft. Cadet schemes and deferred loans will be introduced. Virgin has already experimented with cadets. Qantas also to a greater degree.
Agree with you that is what is occurring, BA have reactivated 'subsidised' cadet training. They also recognised a demographic problem in the existing crew pool: median age was too high. Ryan Air make much of their 'recruiting' but contacts tell me the problem is not dissimilar: Demographic and experience levels.

The beast must be fed is absolutely correct, but the problem of their own making,is there is simply insufficient demand so incentives must be increased.

I would be watching the GA feed (reference the CASA annual report with respect to issuance of CPL and consider nationality of licence holder: hint not majority Australian) So if GA lacks candidates and regional airlines are feeding the majors the problem will begin to manifest firstly through GA (tick), then through regional network (tick) and finally the major carriers.

The question I would consider is if the major airlines in the USA and Europe have only recognised it in the more recent past and have sustained shortages, then, although late, Australia is likely to experience exactly the same phenomena as the demographic spread in the industry is almost 100% correlated.
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