Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas Link 717 cancellations

Old 21st Nov 2017, 21:16
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Ultimately it can always be brought in house which is what happened to a lot of the US outsourced flying.
Completely agree Neville, with a few caveats:

  • Unlimited supply of pilots (which no longer applies)
  • No impact on cash flow to terminate the contract (the question to ask is can Qantas afford the impact?)
  • Ready supply of trained 'strike breakers' to step in?
The cash burn on airlines of a few days without revenue is staggering. Thus the 2011 grounding and dispute had to be over in a few days. If the pilots had collectively wandered 'off reservation' for a few days and had a rest, gone camping outside phone contact, Qantas would have been in much deeper doo doo. Sadly the pilots lacked the foresight to do that.


If what some posters suggest that the 737 flying program is at capacity, the training system clogged and brand new recruits being offered 737 Perth then I would strongly suggest that there is neither the supply of pilots nor any real remedy. There is substantial execution risk to push much harder, particularly with the festive season approaching.
Rated De is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2017, 23:14
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: My house
Posts: 133
That's the dream Neville. They wanted the 717 in house but Cobham made them an offer that they could not refuse and Cobham are now suffering because of it. They dramatically undersold their product (pilots).

Unfortunately for Qantas, 717 pilots are not in large supply so the cost of setting up another in house operation is ridiculously cost prohibitive.

The 737 can't cover it. The F100 can't nor can the Dash. As much as some guys might not like it, the 717 has a place in the Qantas fleet. It's cheap as to own/lease and run and is perfect for the thinner, longer routes.

The best option would be to take the operation back, pilots and all. 717 crew would be happier and all this nastyness may just be resolved.
travelator is online now  
Old 21st Nov 2017, 23:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
The best option would be to take the operation back, pilots and all. 717 crew would be happier and all this nastyness may just be resolved.
Unlimited supply of pilots is the foundation piece of an IR model which uses, contractors, regional affiliates and internal pressure to lower unit labour cost. Qantas like most airlines have floors of people dedicated to creating labour cost tension to drive better pilot operating costs. Whether that costs way more than any actualised benefit is not relevant: The apparatus is huge and admitting their model is broken questions the very survival of their whole adversarial structure.



It's cheap as to own/lease and run and is perfect for the thinner, longer routes.
Certain caveats also apply with fuel price though, otherwise a bit like the F100.
Rated De is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2017, 23:42
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Sand dune
Posts: 198
The past 12-18 months has seen what can only be described as an exodus from the 717. Pilots are flocking to mainline, Virgin, Jetstar and numerous overseas operators. The feedback has been very positive from all, even at low cost operations where the pay and conditions are more favourable.


The word on the street says most operators can't get pilots to attend interviews, let alone accept an offer. I personally know of some pilots who attend multiple interviews with various airlines as "practice" for the one they want!


Whether airlines like it or not, pilots are starting to pick and choose the best fit for them based on the very thing the IR boffins are using to denigrate the profession. No longer do we have to go cap in hand to an interview hoping we're good enough. Contract companies with the lowest pay and conditions are the first to suffer.
Blitzkrieger is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2017, 00:57
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: oz
Posts: 33
I guess it's relevant to this post that the Qlink boss just announced busses for networklink, and also bringing the Jetconnect regos back to VH. Who will crew them? Who knows. I know that CaSA allow Eastern pilots to operate the Q400 on Sunstates AOC, so maybe the Jetconnect pilots will be allowed to operate the 737s on the qantas AOC.
nefarious1 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2017, 01:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 707
The same email said that Jetconnect crew will operate the 737’s as VH- Tails.

Is there anything to stop those pilots then flying any domestic routes in the same aircraft as part of a pattern of flying?

It might help with the shortage of 737 crew at QF.
Going Nowhere is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2017, 01:38
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Well if he can get another contractor to do it for less, why not? Especially if the current ones canít fullfill their obligations. Ultimately it can always be brought in house which is what happened to a lot of the US outsourced flying.

Which goes back to why industrial action as a contractor is futile.
Kind of coming back in house in the US. A lot of the flying is being brought back into wholly owned regionals of AA and Delta, however itís still regionals (essentially a B scale).

It will be interesting to see how the pilot shortage here (USA) shakes things down over the coming years. Many predict that regionals disappear as the supply of pilots eventually dry up. Time will tell.

Only today a contract addendum to one of the Delta wholly owned regionals passed a massive pay increase (relatively speaking), itís only a matter of time before the regionals pay rates increase to a point where having multiple certificates and management infrastructure are no longer relevant. Once again only time will tell.
havick is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2017, 10:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 39
Posts: 59
Qantas passengers vent their frustration amid a spike in flight cancellations - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Qantas passengers vent their frustration amid a spike in flight cancellations
BY NATIONAL RURAL REPORTER BRETT WORTHINGTON
UPDATED ABOUT 7 HOURS AGO

QantasLink, the regional arm of Qantas, has cut the number of flights it operates in a bid to combat cancellations and increasing customer frustration.

Passengers who have been left stranded in airports, have vented their frustration on social media after last-minute flight cancellations.

QantasLink has experienced an almost doubling in flight cancellations in recent months.

The latest figures from the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development show QantasLink cancelled 500 flights last month, which was almost half of all domestic airline cancellations.


Qantas said the bulk of cancellations had been on Canberra, Hobart and regional Queensland flights.

But frustration with the airline has not been restricted to these areas.

QantasLink cancellations in Tamworth, in regional New South Wales, have also been cause for concerns for locals.

Tamworth Regional Council councillor Juanita Wilson said while she appreciated the services QantasLink offered her region, locals could no longer rely on them.

"We're at a mindset now where you book a flight and hope it'll happen," she said.
"Another impact is that individuals and businesses are booking flights earlier than they need with the anticipation that one might be cancelled."

Pilot shortage and aircraft maintenance to blame
Qantas attributes the cancellations to crew shortages.

It said illness and training were responsible for a lack of available pilots among its reserve crews.


The company also attributed the cancellations to unexpected maintenance of planes, which required parts to be sourced from overseas.

Cr Wilson while every industry and every business had its issues it was up to industry to manage the situation.

"If the availability of pilots in Australia is an issue, and it seems to be, then perhaps government [at] all levels needs to look at how that can be resourced and solved," she said

Cr Wilson said the cancellations meant people had missed weddings, international flights and medical appointments.

Reduced flights to improve reliability
QantasLink chief operating officer Jenny Chamberlain, in a statement, said the airline had reduced flight numbers to combat the cancellations, changes that would remain in place until March.

"The higher rates of cancellations and delays is disappointing and falls well below the standards we set for ourselves and our customers," she said.

"We've said we are taking active steps to improve overall reliability by making some adjustments to our QantasLink network and schedule over the next few months.

"The changes will see us reduce the overall number of flights but instead use larger aircraft to maintain capacity."

However, Cr Wilson said she feared there could be unintended consequences from fewer flights.

"Bigger flights don't always meet the business needs," she said.

"We need to be able to do business in Sydney and get back, or do business in Melbourne and have flights that will [allow] us to get back in a day," she said.

Tasmanian businessman Stuart Liddell travels interstate, particularly to regional Victoria, for work most weeks.

Qantas has cancelled his Hobart flights twice in recent weeks. The Qantas Club member said he was annoyed at the lack of communication from the airline.

"I said 'why has the flight been cancelled?' and all they did was shrug their shoulders," Mr Liddell said.

"I started to get really annoyed because I had commitments in Hobart. That was blown. I had to call up and cancel all those business commitments.

"And nobody [at Qantas] gave a toss about it."
Flight cancellations amid industrial action
Passengers have also vented their frustration at Cobham Aviation Services, the contractor that provides pilots for QantasLink's Boeing 717 planes.

A new 10-year $1.2 billion deal was struck between Cobham and Qantas last year.


Cobham has for months been negotiating a new enterprise bargaining agreement (EBA) with its pilots.

The Australian Federation of Air Pilots filed for protected industrial action in August.

That action is ongoing but Qantas says the dispute is not the primary cause of cancellations and delays in its regional network.

Cobham's public relations firm refused to comment on the effect the industrial action was having on flights, and instead referred questions to Qantas.

Cobham, in a statement, said EBA negotiations were ongoing with the union.

The Australian Federation of Air Pilots also declined to comment, saying staff were unavailable.

The irony of cancellations in Tamworth isn't lost on Cr Wilson.

Her federal MP, until he was kicked out by the High Court, was former deputy prime minster Barnaby Joyce, the federal government's chief advocate of decentralising agencies to regional areas.

"Businesses who are competing with metropolitan business have costs inflated because they've had to reschedule flights or stay overnight in Sydney," she said.

"That puts them at a disadvantage."
To infinity & beyond is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2017, 12:59
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: M.I.A.
Posts: 190
"If the availability of pilots in Australia is an issue, and it seems to be, then perhaps government [at] all levels needs to look at how that can be resourced and solved," she said
Wooooooah there Juanita. Be careful what youíre implying here. Thereís hardly a shortage of pilots in this country just yet. More a lack of proper crew management by the airline involved. QF knew this training boom was coming and did nothing until it was to late to avoid a crisis.
Bug Smasher Smasher is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2017, 20:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: My house
Posts: 133
Yep. Definitely the governments fault. Even when it was the bears I knew it was the damn Government.
travelator is online now  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 02:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,413
Unions need to get onto the front foot and be cold calling MP's from these regional towns and explaining the truth, not what QF wants MP's to hear.
Cruel irony is that Nat and Lib MPs will dismiss the Union's side of the story as "partisan" but accept the Corporate Spin version verbatim.

sick of this country.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 03:16
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,139
Well I saw the advert in yesterday's Australian which is a sign that there is not a big fat hold file full of qualified applicants.

The amount of recruitment going on at present is quite amazing and good to see. Even more amazing given the economy is quiet at present, world wide. What is going to happen when the economy picks up and travel is booming again?
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 03:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,153
Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Well I saw the advert in yesterday's Australian
C'mon Iccy, there's still time! Get in before the ship fills up!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 03:45
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,139
Fills up with water...
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 05:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: oz
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Well I saw the advert in yesterday's Australian which is a sign that there is not a big fat hold file full of qualified applicants.

The amount of recruitment going on at present is quite amazing and good to see. Even more amazing given the economy is quiet at present, world wide. What is going to happen when the economy picks up and travel is booming again?
Qf or Cobham?
Jc31 is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2017, 06:39
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,139
Cobham 717 FOs all bases.

"An exciting opportunity."

This ad has been on their website since July 2015...

http://www.cobhamaviationservices.co...-opportunities
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2017, 05:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 73
some qantaslink flights to be operated by alliance to 'improve reliability'
Supermouse3 is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 02:32
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 344
The whole thing is a mess, QLink and Cobham. Time to change management and bring everything under one roof.
Engineer_aus is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 09:12
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
The whole thing is a mess, QLink and Cobham. Time to change management and bring everything under one roof.
Yes it is and your solution logical and rational. That is precisely why it will not be done. The whole system and I am talking well over the number of engineers QF has staffing who has a stated purpose of lowering labour unit cost.

  1. Subsidiary flying
  2. Contractors flying
  3. Less than good faith bargaining
The US carriers and O' Leary the architects of an adversarial system that spends more time on taking money out of employee pockets than it does ever doing things efficiently.


Whilst I agree with the sentiments, the beast is well entrenched.
Rated De is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 09:26
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Horn Island
Posts: 8
Please
The whole thing is a mess, QLink and Cobham. Time to change management and bring everything under one
And how exactly will that help?

The dash 8 cancellations have been high for a looong time, hence the Tamworth CR complaining about Tamworth reliability, ( no 717s to Tamworth, and the places listed are both DHC8 and 717 routes, no mention of routes covered almost solely by 717 I.e. WA and NT). As for the 717’s, the delays/ cancellations sky rocketed when QF changed the maintenance provider. They are so far behind with 717’s parked outside the hangar in Canberra they may well have to send some maintenance back to Cobham. I suspect the reduction in flights (717) is to allow the maintenance to catch up and lack of crew (QF determines the numbers). The decision to change maintenance etc was made “in house” and it has been proven to be a poor decision, short term at least.

Last edited by RENURPP; 3rd Dec 2017 at 02:07.
RENURPP is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.