Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Sydney Winds - What's Going Go?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Sydney Winds - What's Going Go?

Old 14th Sep 2017, 14:01
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,856
Sydney Winds - What's Going Go?

The ABC website says that International flights are running normally; the winds are only affecting domestic flights.

Are our domestic pilots less capable of operating in 60kph winds than internationals??
Capn Bloggs is online now  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 14:43
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 9
With the reduced acceptance rates I assume the domestics would consolidate/cancel flights instead of the internationals....
big_head is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 15:47
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 2,788
That would be my guess as well. Much more flexibility in the domestic network.
AerocatS2A is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 15:49
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 58
Posts: 375
With reduced capacity (single vs two runway ops) it's easy to understand why the operators of the airport and Airservices have used the criteria they have to determine who gets slots and who gets parked. International ops tend to use heavier aircraft - movement fees are based on weight. Bigger aircraft = more $ - pretty simple.
roundsounds is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 16:03
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 2,788
Meanwhile those that fly in during the curfew just have to accept the crosswind .
AerocatS2A is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 16:40
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 582
Very similar practice in the major airports in Europe, short haul flights are curtailed to provide for the long hauls in the same circumstances.
L'aviateur is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 17:06
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eternal Beach
Posts: 1,028
Years ago out of Nice they shut one runway due turbulence.
FFS they are less than 300m apart!
It was very windy, but it was the day after the Monaco GP and the Cannes film festival and the most movements in any day of the year.
3hr delay to Fiumacino only to find the same low pressure system there and only rwy 25 in use. FFS!

halas
halas is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 01:24
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 412
Domestic flights to SYD are subject to departure slot control. With reduced flow the earliest slot your company can get may be 3+ hours away, hence it makes more sense to cancel the flight and consolidate the pax on other same-day services.

Not a practical option for an international 777 or 380.
Beer Baron is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 02:17
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida USA
Age: 56
Posts: 1
Worlds best Babies...
4 Holer is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 02:50
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 248
"...but international jet aircraft have priority over domestic jet aircraft"

Don't think so.

Besides some management and economic benefit reasons that may be applied,(and your AIP List) I think you will find that it is first in, first served, with scheduled commercial air transport and non-scheduled air transport having priority over general aviation.

Beer Barons post makes more sense.

"Jet aircraft also tend to have lower minima than turboprops."

Bit of a generalization there!!
Square Bear is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 02:51
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 657
IMO, there was no requirement for a reduction in capacity yesterday at SYD. The wind wasn't that strong, was it?? We landed on 25, early afternoon - not even anyone lined up at the holding point waiting for departure - though I know this was not peak time.
16L+R could have been used all day for departures, surely?
Anyone know what the max crosswind was during the day??
josephfeatherweight is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 03:08
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 807
Most aircraft have crosswind limits between 30 and 40 knots don't they...?

What's the problem?
*Lancer* is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 03:14
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by *Lancer* View Post
Most aircraft have crosswind limits between 30 and 40 knots don't they...?

What's the problem?
The 20kt crosswind limit imposed on runway selection. If 30kts is a safe crosswind to operate with then push for change. ATC certainly do not go from 2 to 1 runway for the fun of it.
big_head is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 04:29
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 33
40 kts is roughly 20 meters per second.

Runways are generally 45 meters wide and obviously we land in the middle.

Your complaining about a couple of hours delay because someone with 1000s of hours experience has decided a little delay is a good offset for being off the runway in 1 second if it doesn't go well.

Take a look at you tube. I can attest I've been in 35 kts in Adelaide once in my career and it isn't pretty.

As far as ATC are concerned I think these days airline rather cop the delay in the ground rather than a hours holding
Aussie Fo is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 05:30
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 238
How many movements per hour is the single RWY 25 limited to in order to meet SYD airport noise compliance?

Is it 40 or 80 movments per hour on a single runway? Were movements slowed below that of a normal fully manned capability due to noise restrictions or controller capacity?
ramble on is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 06:33
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Harbour Master Place
Posts: 619
Yesterdays effort, 5 minute legs with track mile markers (nm) giving an indication of distance travelled in the hold.

CurtainTwitcher is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 07:05
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 235
And will curfew be relaxed to clear the backlog?
clark y is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 07:07
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sunny Coast
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by ramble on View Post
How many movements per hour is the single RWY 25 limited to in order to meet SYD airport noise compliance?

Is it 40 or 80 movments per hour on a single runway? Were movements slowed below that of a normal fully manned capability due to noise restrictions or controller capacity?
Very good question

Another good question is why are they building BCA in stead of a second east west runway at KSA
Even if it were just a 1800m runway or less just for regionals or a longer "take off only" runway so that there was an allowance for strong crosswind on 16/34
Deano969 is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 07:08
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In da Big Smoke
Posts: 2,369
Why was 20 knots considered the limitation? Given the chaos that results maybe that number should be higher or at least allow people to land on 34/16 if they deem it acceptable.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 07:22
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 9
The 80 movement per hour cap applies, regardless of the runways in use. It can't be hit on a single runway (mid 50's is a rough max). No idea where the 20kts comes from, ICAO maybe? utilizing both 34/16 and 25 for arrivals and departures doesn't really increase any movements, it would likely do the opposite as complexity increases. A 25kt limitation would likely eliminate a high % (80 at a guess) of 25 only days. 30kts would almost eliminate it altogether. Whether that's considered safe and would get signed off is another question.
big_head is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright İ 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.