MERGED: Air Asia Turnback Perth 25 Jun 17
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Who is to say you will be at or below max landing weight when you divert to Forrest? Coming back from Perth with a full plane and heaps of gas on my type (should be obvious) you would be many tonnes overweight. With a cargo fire indication you're not exactly going to hold for an hour to burn off the extra gas!
Tony says he did great!
From The West, 29 June 2017
Compare apples with apples. You wouldn't be using YFRT as an EDTO alternate. Neville Nobody would be because he has the landing performance. As for a cargo fire, if you're going to crash on landing due to runway length, then that's a problem you'll have to work out. Nothing to do with YFRT per se.
AirAsia boss super proud of ‘pray’ pilot
AirAsia boss Tony Fernandes has lavished praise on the pilot and crew of a flight from Perth to Kuala Lumpur after a mid-air drama caused by a major engine malfunction.
Despite widespread condemnation of the captain for telling passengers to pray for their survival as they returned to Perth with the A330 shaking severely, Mr Fernandes said he was “super proud of Captain Ibrahim” .
“AirAsia don’t make engines and all airlines have engine failures,” Mr Fernandes said in a Facebook post. “But when it does happen, it takes great pilots and great leadership in times of crisis. I’m beaming with pride.
“From videos you can see all guests calm, and from the many emails and WhatsApp I got, the captain’s announcements kept everyone calm.”
Mr Fernandes said “if it was a full-service airline the pilot would have been a hero” .
“But because it’s a lowcost carrier, press and so-called experts make wild accusations and forget the heroics of our crew.
“I want to thank the many Australians who have praised AirAsia for all we have done despite all the adverse press.”
Australian and International Pilots Association vice-president Shane Loney said the captain “could have worded things differently” .
“We don’t usually invite our passengers to pray,” Mr Loney, a Qantas A380 pilot, said. “We know the aeroplanes are well built and reliable pieces of kit.”
He said there would be many pilots looking at the AirAsia X incident and how they might handle themselves in a similar situation.
“If we’re in a position like that in the future we might handle it a little better as a result of this incident,” Mr Loney said.
Other pilots questioned Capt. Ibrahim’s training.
“Sounds like the captain should attend a course in how to calm passengers. Prompting them to pray is obviously not the best idea!” wrote Airbus Fan on AvHerald.com.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau and AirAsia X are investigating the incident , described as an “engine malfunction” .
Other aviation experts suggested the problems occurred because of a blade ingestion.
AirAsia boss Tony Fernandes has lavished praise on the pilot and crew of a flight from Perth to Kuala Lumpur after a mid-air drama caused by a major engine malfunction.
Despite widespread condemnation of the captain for telling passengers to pray for their survival as they returned to Perth with the A330 shaking severely, Mr Fernandes said he was “super proud of Captain Ibrahim” .
“AirAsia don’t make engines and all airlines have engine failures,” Mr Fernandes said in a Facebook post. “But when it does happen, it takes great pilots and great leadership in times of crisis. I’m beaming with pride.
“From videos you can see all guests calm, and from the many emails and WhatsApp I got, the captain’s announcements kept everyone calm.”
Mr Fernandes said “if it was a full-service airline the pilot would have been a hero” .
“But because it’s a lowcost carrier, press and so-called experts make wild accusations and forget the heroics of our crew.
“I want to thank the many Australians who have praised AirAsia for all we have done despite all the adverse press.”
Australian and International Pilots Association vice-president Shane Loney said the captain “could have worded things differently” .
“We don’t usually invite our passengers to pray,” Mr Loney, a Qantas A380 pilot, said. “We know the aeroplanes are well built and reliable pieces of kit.”
He said there would be many pilots looking at the AirAsia X incident and how they might handle themselves in a similar situation.
“If we’re in a position like that in the future we might handle it a little better as a result of this incident,” Mr Loney said.
Other pilots questioned Capt. Ibrahim’s training.
“Sounds like the captain should attend a course in how to calm passengers. Prompting them to pray is obviously not the best idea!” wrote Airbus Fan on AvHerald.com.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau and AirAsia X are investigating the incident , described as an “engine malfunction” .
Other aviation experts suggested the problems occurred because of a blade ingestion.
Originally Posted by AirbusA320A321
Coming back from Perth with a full plane and heaps of gas on my type (should be obvious) you would be many tonnes overweight. With a cargo fire indication you're not exactly going to hold for an hour to burn off the extra gas!
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Comments from a passenger:
"At times the vibration of my seat back was too much to be able to rest against. I had to sit forward in the seat" and "The passengers around me were discussing why we were not landing at a closer airport"
Mr Fernandes said in a Facebook post. “But when it does happen, it takes great pilots and great leadership in times of crisis. I’m beaming with pride."
I'll bet Mr Fernandes wouldn't be "beaming with pride" had the severely vibrating engine module come away with part of the wing abeam Geraldton.
Unbelievable.
"At times the vibration of my seat back was too much to be able to rest against. I had to sit forward in the seat" and "The passengers around me were discussing why we were not landing at a closer airport"
Mr Fernandes said in a Facebook post. “But when it does happen, it takes great pilots and great leadership in times of crisis. I’m beaming with pride."
I'll bet Mr Fernandes wouldn't be "beaming with pride" had the severely vibrating engine module come away with part of the wing abeam Geraldton.
Unbelievable.
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Doubt it!
Comments from a passenger:
"At times the vibration of my seat back was too much to be able to rest against. I had to sit forward in the seat" and "The passengers around me were discussing why we were not landing at a closer airport"
Mr Fernandes said in a Facebook post. “But when it does happen, it takes great pilots and great leadership in times of crisis. I’m beaming with pride."
I'll bet Mr Fernandes wouldn't be "beaming with pride" had the severely vibrating engine module come away with part of the wing abeam Geraldton.
Unbelievable.
"At times the vibration of my seat back was too much to be able to rest against. I had to sit forward in the seat" and "The passengers around me were discussing why we were not landing at a closer airport"
Mr Fernandes said in a Facebook post. “But when it does happen, it takes great pilots and great leadership in times of crisis. I’m beaming with pride."
I'll bet Mr Fernandes wouldn't be "beaming with pride" had the severely vibrating engine module come away with part of the wing abeam Geraldton.
Unbelievable.
Things like overnight(s) passenger accomodation, new engine availability, lack of knowledge of the chosen alternate airport can all contribute to a captain taking the "long way home!"
Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't!
https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/20140822...l%20Report.pdf
The CX A330 in question had significant cracking to the pylon sub-structure after
only 28 minutes for their turn-around with vibration levels that could be presumed to be lower than in this event.
We'll see what the current investigation shows. If it all comes out hunky-dory then I'll be more than impressed.
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One has to wonder. ETOPS divert is at 320-335 KIAS. It will be interesting to see if the A330 crew maintained that speed or if they reduced speed to reduce the vibration.
Of course it's up to the pilot to set the speed according to his needs.
As stated earlier, the issue is not related to structural integrity. The pilot simply follows his training.
We'll see what the ATSB has to say about this eventually since there is always room for "lessons learned"
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At my company the EDTO planning certainly has a specified speed – but there is absolutely no requirement to fly at that speed when diverting. EDTO is simply a planning and paperwork exercise that doesn’t necessarily apply in the real world.
Pretty sure that if the Capt's butt cheeks did'nt suck that seat cushion up off his seat, I'm damn sure the resulting vibrations would have bashed it up into a very dark place and he's still picking bits of cushion out now as we speak. FFS, land at nearest available!!!
McHale.
McHale.
ETOPS has absolutely nothing to do with this. 4 eng jets are not bound by etops, but i can bloody well guarantee that if I was flying a 380 that had an engine failure and was shaking the jet as badly as was happening on the 330, I would have landed at the nearest suitable - ie Learmonth.
Besides, doesn't the manufacturer have capital letter LAND ANSA in amber on the ECAM for the 330? (It did when I used to fly em). Looks like a lot of commentators have forgotten about that thing called airmanship, and CDF.
As for the "saying a prayer" bit - well if that isn't the most terrible display of command leadership, and that that is endorsed by any actual captains here, then I weep for the future of aviation.
Besides, doesn't the manufacturer have capital letter LAND ANSA in amber on the ECAM for the 330? (It did when I used to fly em). Looks like a lot of commentators have forgotten about that thing called airmanship, and CDF.
As for the "saying a prayer" bit - well if that isn't the most terrible display of command leadership, and that that is endorsed by any actual captains here, then I weep for the future of aviation.
D7237 turn-back
FR24 shows that the aircraft had started a turn-back to Perth less than 3 minutes after the big bang. For what it's worth, it also shows one of the first things to happen was a sharp climb of > 800 ft before commencing a swift descent, initially to 24,000 ft. No doubt they were pretty busy during the first several minutes.
So now lets throw in some politically incorrect conjecture.
Having made the decision to return to Perth and committed to that path, the cultural reluctance to reverse that decision took over.
Once the aircraft was pointed at Perth, that's where it was going, no matter what.
Conjecture? Absolutely, but not out of the realms of possibility.
So now lets throw in some politically incorrect conjecture.
Having made the decision to return to Perth and committed to that path, the cultural reluctance to reverse that decision took over.
Once the aircraft was pointed at Perth, that's where it was going, no matter what.
Conjecture? Absolutely, but not out of the realms of possibility.
I dont see why that conjecture is politically incorrect.
Not reviewing and revising decisions is a very common mistake made by people in all trades and all walks.
Not reviewing and revising decisions is a very common mistake made by people in all trades and all walks.
It seems some are confusing EROPS, ETOPS, EDNO, engine failures, vibration and common sense