Tiger Airways A320 incident Cairns
the company has given us approval in FCOM to do it prior
How "prior" do you do it? At the gate? Trundling down the taxiway? With the Before Takeoff C/L above the line?
The whole point of the takeoff runway confirm is to check you are lining/have lined up on the correct runway, not a taxiway, and pointing in the right direction. Not much point doing that before you're at the holding point and about to initiate the turn to line up.
You might think it can never happen to you, but the reason Airbus brought the check in was because people kept doing it.
The expanded FCOM says "stowed" not "stow".
Let's talk about brake fans shall we..... wait..... what does the fcom say....?
Would be interesting to see if there was a no objection from the manufacturer for that. Last time an Aussie airline mucked around with the Airbus checklists without consent, they got within ~30 feet of the ground at YMML in fog in a stuffed up go around.
How "prior" do you do it? At the gate? Trundling down the taxiway? With the Before Takeoff C/L above the line?
The whole point of the takeoff runway confirm is to check you are lining/have lined up on the correct runway, not a taxiway, and pointing in the right direction. Not much point doing that before you're at the holding point and about to initiate the turn to line up.
You might think it can never happen to you, but the reason Airbus brought the check in was because people kept doing it.
How "prior" do you do it? At the gate? Trundling down the taxiway? With the Before Takeoff C/L above the line?
The whole point of the takeoff runway confirm is to check you are lining/have lined up on the correct runway, not a taxiway, and pointing in the right direction. Not much point doing that before you're at the holding point and about to initiate the turn to line up.
You might think it can never happen to you, but the reason Airbus brought the check in was because people kept doing it.
Maybe they didnt think that since they didnt bring it in for other, subsequent, models...
Oh the irony of your retort GA Driver if only you could see it.
Those words are written by airbus to let you look out the window and fly the plane. The point is that they are NOT being prescriptive.
The legal arse covering here is just Airbus ensuring in the FCOM that you di not have the tray table open for takeoff, probably for some certification requirements.
Those words are written by airbus to let you look out the window and fly the plane. The point is that they are NOT being prescriptive.
The legal arse covering here is just Airbus ensuring in the FCOM that you di not have the tray table open for takeoff, probably for some certification requirements.
GA Driver said.
And that's my point, of course you can put the tray table away any time sooner (even if the Fringlish guidelines in the QRH only say 'stow' not 'stowed') but it's exactly this sort of thing that people get bent out of shape for while not understanding how to enmesh the details of FCOM procedures and sound airmanship.
Compressor Stall,
Of course you can't do the before takeoff checklist 'below the line' at the gate but if my employer elects to discuss with the manufacturer 'no technical objections' to me this makes a lot of sense.
Things have thankfully, come a long way in Australia in the last 10 years largely because of the learnings of the incident you speak of and others. It was a bloody close call, to assume that nothing has changed is pretty biased against Jetstar.
Oh dear...... this is the problem in Australia. We are too worried about the words and covering ar$e rather than looking out the window and flying the plane.
Compressor Stall,
Of course you can't do the before takeoff checklist 'below the line' at the gate but if my employer elects to discuss with the manufacturer 'no technical objections' to me this makes a lot of sense.
Things have thankfully, come a long way in Australia in the last 10 years largely because of the learnings of the incident you speak of and others. It was a bloody close call, to assume that nothing has changed is pretty biased against Jetstar.
Compressor Stall
Fair enough, pardon me for being a little defensive, not all is perfect but that incident occurred not long after I started and we as an organisation have come along in leaps and bounds since then.
Back on topic: I think in this particular case, doing the before takeoff checklist below the line, when you're off the runway, with no distractions, at or near the hold point, before having called ready can go a long way toward mitigating the threat of doing exactly what has possibly occurred in this instance.
I perceive lining up to roll to be a critical phase of flight and I like to have everything out of the way that I can...including the tray table
but hey, that's just me.
It certainly helps my puny brain at least.
Fair enough, pardon me for being a little defensive, not all is perfect but that incident occurred not long after I started and we as an organisation have come along in leaps and bounds since then.
Back on topic: I think in this particular case, doing the before takeoff checklist below the line, when you're off the runway, with no distractions, at or near the hold point, before having called ready can go a long way toward mitigating the threat of doing exactly what has possibly occurred in this instance.
I perceive lining up to roll to be a critical phase of flight and I like to have everything out of the way that I can...including the tray table
but hey, that's just me. It certainly helps my puny brain at least.
Compressor Stall
Fair enough, pardon me for being a little defensive, not all is perfect but that incident occurred not long after I started and we as an organisation have come along in leaps and bounds since then.
Back on topic: I think in this particular case, doing the before takeoff checklist below the line, when you're off the runway, with no distractions, at or near the hold point, before having called ready can go a long way toward mitigating the threat of doing exactly what has possibly occurred in this instance.
I perceive lining up to roll to be a critical phase of flight and I like to have everything out of the way that I can...including the tray table but hey, that's just me.
It certainly helps my puny brain at least.
Fair enough, pardon me for being a little defensive, not all is perfect but that incident occurred not long after I started and we as an organisation have come along in leaps and bounds since then.
Back on topic: I think in this particular case, doing the before takeoff checklist below the line, when you're off the runway, with no distractions, at or near the hold point, before having called ready can go a long way toward mitigating the threat of doing exactly what has possibly occurred in this instance.
I perceive lining up to roll to be a critical phase of flight and I like to have everything out of the way that I can...including the tray table
but hey, that's just me. It certainly helps my puny brain at least.
Yes
Yes
For that dark stormy night full of other distractions,clearing the deck of some routine matters whilst idle makes sense.
Final Report.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5772854...nal-report.pdf
Poor form on so many levels. Great job to that controller.
What is the rush these days? I mean someone so new on type could the control check not have been done before taxi commenced? Once the taxi speeds were mastered by the new FO (clearly wasn't yet in this case) then start introducing flight control checks and numerous other multi tasking. Well that's how I was taught, one thing at a time, master it then move on.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5772854...nal-report.pdf
Poor form on so many levels. Great job to that controller.
What is the rush these days? I mean someone so new on type could the control check not have been done before taxi commenced? Once the taxi speeds were mastered by the new FO (clearly wasn't yet in this case) then start introducing flight control checks and numerous other multi tasking. Well that's how I was taught, one thing at a time, master it then move on.
