Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Tiger Airways A320 incident Cairns

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Tiger Airways A320 incident Cairns

Old 9th Feb 2017, 20:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 183
Willie, the part of your post that touches on the tray table is a bit misleading; the SOP you refer to actually refers to the last point by which the table has to be stowed - not a directive as to the one-and-only point that the pilot is allowed to stow it. I stow mine before pushback, others do it whenever they want to, so long as it is done prior to reading 'below the line' on the before take-off checklist.

TOLD card??? In an Airbus??? Good God!!!
RAD_ALT_ALIVE is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2017, 23:49
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,697
the company has given us approval in FCOM to do it prior
Would be interesting to see if there was a no objection from the manufacturer for that. Last time an Aussie airline mucked around with the Airbus checklists without consent, they got within ~30 feet of the ground at YMML in fog in a stuffed up go around.

How "prior" do you do it? At the gate? Trundling down the taxiway? With the Before Takeoff C/L above the line?
The whole point of the takeoff runway confirm is to check you are lining/have lined up on the correct runway, not a taxiway, and pointing in the right direction. Not much point doing that before you're at the holding point and about to initiate the turn to line up.

You might think it can never happen to you, but the reason Airbus brought the check in was because people kept doing it.
compressor stall is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2017, 09:24
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dunnunda
Posts: 230
The expanded FCOM says "stowed" not "stow".
Oh dear...... this is the problem in Australia. We are too worried about the words and covering ar$e rather than looking out the window and flying the plane.

Let's talk about brake fans shall we..... wait..... what does the fcom say....?
GA Driver is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2017, 09:45
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,034
Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
Would be interesting to see if there was a no objection from the manufacturer for that. Last time an Aussie airline mucked around with the Airbus checklists without consent, they got within ~30 feet of the ground at YMML in fog in a stuffed up go around.

How "prior" do you do it? At the gate? Trundling down the taxiway? With the Before Takeoff C/L above the line?
The whole point of the takeoff runway confirm is to check you are lining/have lined up on the correct runway, not a taxiway, and pointing in the right direction. Not much point doing that before you're at the holding point and about to initiate the turn to line up.

You might think it can never happen to you, but the reason Airbus brought the check in was because people kept doing it.

Maybe they didnt think that since they didnt bring it in for other, subsequent, models...
maggot is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2017, 11:02
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,697
Oh the irony of your retort GA Driver if only you could see it.

Those words are written by airbus to let you look out the window and fly the plane. The point is that they are NOT being prescriptive.

The legal arse covering here is just Airbus ensuring in the FCOM that you di not have the tray table open for takeoff, probably for some certification requirements.
compressor stall is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2017, 23:44
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 351
GA Driver said.

Oh dear...... this is the problem in Australia. We are too worried about the words and covering ar$e rather than looking out the window and flying the plane.
And that's my point, of course you can put the tray table away any time sooner (even if the Fringlish guidelines in the QRH only say 'stow' not 'stowed') but it's exactly this sort of thing that people get bent out of shape for while not understanding how to enmesh the details of FCOM procedures and sound airmanship.

Compressor Stall,

Of course you can't do the before takeoff checklist 'below the line' at the gate but if my employer elects to discuss with the manufacturer 'no technical objections' to me this makes a lot of sense.

Things have thankfully, come a long way in Australia in the last 10 years largely because of the learnings of the incident you speak of and others. It was a bloody close call, to assume that nothing has changed is pretty biased against Jetstar.
Willie Nelson is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 00:12
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,697
Didn't even know you flew for Jetstar, no bias intended.
compressor stall is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 01:07
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 351
Compressor Stall

Fair enough, pardon me for being a little defensive, not all is perfect but that incident occurred not long after I started and we as an organisation have come along in leaps and bounds since then.

Back on topic: I think in this particular case, doing the before takeoff checklist below the line, when you're off the runway, with no distractions, at or near the hold point, before having called ready can go a long way toward mitigating the threat of doing exactly what has possibly occurred in this instance.

I perceive lining up to roll to be a critical phase of flight and I like to have everything out of the way that I can...including the tray table but hey, that's just me.

It certainly helps my puny brain at least.
Willie Nelson is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2017, 03:23
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,034
Originally Posted by Willie Nelson View Post
Compressor Stall

Fair enough, pardon me for being a little defensive, not all is perfect but that incident occurred not long after I started and we as an organisation have come along in leaps and bounds since then.

Back on topic: I think in this particular case, doing the before takeoff checklist below the line, when you're off the runway, with no distractions, at or near the hold point, before having called ready can go a long way toward mitigating the threat of doing exactly what has possibly occurred in this instance.

I perceive lining up to roll to be a critical phase of flight and I like to have everything out of the way that I can...including the tray table but hey, that's just me.

It certainly helps my puny brain at least.
Yes
Yes
Yes

For that dark stormy night full of other distractions,clearing the deck of some routine matters whilst idle makes sense.
maggot is offline  
Old 24th May 2017, 11:08
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 698
Final Report.

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5772854...nal-report.pdf

Poor form on so many levels. Great job to that controller.

What is the rush these days? I mean someone so new on type could the control check not have been done before taxi commenced? Once the taxi speeds were mastered by the new FO (clearly wasn't yet in this case) then start introducing flight control checks and numerous other multi tasking. Well that's how I was taught, one thing at a time, master it then move on.
PoppaJo is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.