QF 7879 routes
Mr Wooby can wonder all he likes but it's not for him (or me)to question who pays to travel in the premium cabins. As for those whu use points, doesn't he realise that Qantas is actually paid for them. Not only that, there's a lot of anecdotal evidence around that QF Frequent Flyer is a very profutable part of the business,
Slagging Staff Travel on a public forum doesn't do good for anyone. Those who are ineligible are as green as grass with envy, hence my comment STFU. Best to accept the good parts and tolerate that which you don't like especially as we are not born to the benefits it offers.
Slagging Staff Travel on a public forum doesn't do good for anyone. Those who are ineligible are as green as grass with envy, hence my comment STFU. Best to accept the good parts and tolerate that which you don't like especially as we are not born to the benefits it offers.
Cost/profit shifting to make it look good for the mooted sell off a few years back.
We are talking about a Melbourne Perth flight here, so the upgrade category for all current staff is J18, after which length of service is the determining factor.
So for a Domestic flight, the Captain with 40 years service, provided all listed staff are onloaded, will always get a business seat in front of the exec who has only been in the company for a year!
So for a Domestic flight, the Captain with 40 years service, provided all listed staff are onloaded, will always get a business seat in front of the exec who has only been in the company for a year!
Just out of interest how many pilots would Qantas have with 40 years of service? Curious to compare the pilot numbers with Australian ATCs with 40 years of service (which I could probably count on 1 hand).
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……..so the upgrade category for all current staff is J18,
So for a Domestic flight, the Captain with 40 years service, provided all listed staff are onloaded, will always get a business seat in front of the exec who has only been in the company for a year!
Staff travel is a handy option, but like many things Qantas these days, the only recognised measure of your contribution to the company is KPI's and if you don't 'earn' them your contribution is largely invisible.
Thankfully most staff remain incredibly loyal to the brand and don't need KPI's to encourage their performance.
C441, I was only alluding to the situation relating to Crew Commuting using staff travel, not duty vs leisure travel,
No doubt a manager on Duty travel will have higher onload/upgrade priority.
I dont know what you can do about the situation you describe, if they are abusing the Duty Travel system?
But for Staff Leisure Travel domestically, J18 applies for all current staff, and your 30 years will see you in Business, before an exec who has been with the company 5 minutes, and is on Leisure travel.
It will also see you into Domestic business ahead of a lot of other fellow staff, even more so Internationally, with a Higher Upgrade Priority than a lot of other staff have.
No doubt a manager on Duty travel will have higher onload/upgrade priority.
I dont know what you can do about the situation you describe, if they are abusing the Duty Travel system?
But for Staff Leisure Travel domestically, J18 applies for all current staff, and your 30 years will see you in Business, before an exec who has been with the company 5 minutes, and is on Leisure travel.
It will also see you into Domestic business ahead of a lot of other fellow staff, even more so Internationally, with a Higher Upgrade Priority than a lot of other staff have.
C441, I was only alluding to the situation relating to Crew Commuting using staff travel, not duty vs leisure travel,
Anyway, we have departed significantly from the 787 projected route thread so I'll leave it there…….
It's about the upgrade priority F11. So a kid in a graduate position in their first year of service beats a 40 year Captain to the last business seat. Check any international service and there is an unusually high number of staff (plus their family, friends, girlfriends, boyfriend) flying around with an F11 upgrade
Rat,
I'm not management nor am I trying to bully anyone. If only you realised just how much this benefit is hated, detested - call it what you will - by those who don't receive it, you wouldn't complain. And you wouldn't receive a skerrick of sympathy.
I'm not management nor am I trying to bully anyone. If only you realised just how much this benefit is hated, detested - call it what you will - by those who don't receive it, you wouldn't complain. And you wouldn't receive a skerrick of sympathy.
I can't see how it matters what people who don't get staff travel think of it. They can love it, detest it, be nonplussed by it - makes no difference to me. Nor would I be looking for their sympathy. As far as I can tell, the people who are most upset about staff travel are the ones who leave angry online comments on Daily Telegraph articles about QF, and who seem to think that staff travel confers unlimited confirmed First Class seats for $5 a sector, at the expense of regular paying passengers. Their opinion isn't something that greatly troubles me.
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It was a big mistake putting blind faith in sacrificing terms and Conditions to get staff travel improvements or token "reviews" that were not guaranteed in writing.
Totally unrealistic to expect it of AIPA. They never promised it, however it was advertised or wrongly perceived to deliver more than was realistic.
Ive heard so many people wrongly complain that AIPA had promised something for voting yes. What idiots.
Doing an extra PER/LHR trip per roster without night credits and getting zero overtime for doing a 19 hour plus duty is a massive sacrifice without getting anything major for the trade off. Hourly rate aside it's less take home pay than 767 or A330 under the previous award flying what the 787 will do. That's Ultra Long Haul night flying. Rotating seniority isa fantastic outcome. For the PER base sadly it won't help as you could fly PER to LHR or PER to LHR.
The irony is the pay reduction was more $$$$ than what a full fare first class ticket cost to Europe, that would of earned points, earned status credits and been confirmed. Or two confirmed business tickets.
Would of been better to get a SH bonus scheme for trading off night credits and overtime than a staff travel review. With the record Qantas profits over the last financial year the bonus would have paid for the ticket.
For the next EA it would be far wiser to hold onto terms and conditions rather than trading big items for a hope you might get a better upgrade once a year you may travel.
The system has changed to benefit Frequent flyers permantely.
Any staff are the last priority now.Deal with it. Look at the upgrade requests and they often number 40+ For business and First. With double points awarded now for bookings in 2017, the public will bank more points. It won't matter what your upgrade order is.
Perhaps the Pilot that works very hard in the office might occasionally get F or J with an F11 based on greater years of service than the 24 year old from Jetstar IT, but even then it would be rare that there is even a free seat.
You can buy a confirmed economy ticket for $1000 on sale to the USA on Qantas and earn double points. Sign up to a new credit card and you can earn 100,000 points. Better to do that and use/earn points to get an upgrade. Puts you ahead of the 20 year old from Jetstar IT or HR anyway.
Unless you get a confirmed seat agreed to in an EA which will never happen, your better off focusing on increasing take home pay, rest days with family, better hotels etc etc.
Totally unrealistic to expect it of AIPA. They never promised it, however it was advertised or wrongly perceived to deliver more than was realistic.
Ive heard so many people wrongly complain that AIPA had promised something for voting yes. What idiots.
Doing an extra PER/LHR trip per roster without night credits and getting zero overtime for doing a 19 hour plus duty is a massive sacrifice without getting anything major for the trade off. Hourly rate aside it's less take home pay than 767 or A330 under the previous award flying what the 787 will do. That's Ultra Long Haul night flying. Rotating seniority isa fantastic outcome. For the PER base sadly it won't help as you could fly PER to LHR or PER to LHR.
The irony is the pay reduction was more $$$$ than what a full fare first class ticket cost to Europe, that would of earned points, earned status credits and been confirmed. Or two confirmed business tickets.
Would of been better to get a SH bonus scheme for trading off night credits and overtime than a staff travel review. With the record Qantas profits over the last financial year the bonus would have paid for the ticket.
For the next EA it would be far wiser to hold onto terms and conditions rather than trading big items for a hope you might get a better upgrade once a year you may travel.
The system has changed to benefit Frequent flyers permantely.
Any staff are the last priority now.Deal with it. Look at the upgrade requests and they often number 40+ For business and First. With double points awarded now for bookings in 2017, the public will bank more points. It won't matter what your upgrade order is.
Perhaps the Pilot that works very hard in the office might occasionally get F or J with an F11 based on greater years of service than the 24 year old from Jetstar IT, but even then it would be rare that there is even a free seat.
You can buy a confirmed economy ticket for $1000 on sale to the USA on Qantas and earn double points. Sign up to a new credit card and you can earn 100,000 points. Better to do that and use/earn points to get an upgrade. Puts you ahead of the 20 year old from Jetstar IT or HR anyway.
Unless you get a confirmed seat agreed to in an EA which will never happen, your better off focusing on increasing take home pay, rest days with family, better hotels etc etc.
Hear, hear.
It was a big mistake putting blind faith in sacrificing terms and Conditions to get staff travel improvements or token "reviews" that were not guaranteed in writing.
Totally unrealistic to expect it of AIPA. They never promised it, however it was advertised or wrongly perceived to deliver more than was realistic.
Ive heard so many people wrongly complain that AIPA had promised something for voting yes. What idiots.
Doing an extra PER/LHR trip per roster without night credits and getting zero overtime for doing a 19 hour plus duty is a massive sacrifice without getting anything major for the trade off. Hourly rate aside it's less take home pay than 767 or A330 under the previous award flying what the 787 will do. That's Ultra Long Haul night flying. Rotating seniority isa fantastic outcome. For the PER base sadly it won't help as you could fly PER to LHR or PER to LHR.
The irony is the pay reduction was more $$$$ than what a full fare first class ticket cost to Europe, that would of earned points, earned status credits and been confirmed. Or two confirmed business tickets.
Would of been better to get a SH bonus scheme for trading off night credits and overtime than a staff travel review. With the record Qantas profits over the last financial year the bonus would have paid for the ticket.
For the next EA it would be far wiser to hold onto terms and conditions rather than trading big items for a hope you might get a better upgrade once a year you may travel.
The system has changed to benefit Frequent flyers permantely.
Any staff are the last priority now.Deal with it. Look at the upgrade requests and they often number 40+ For business and First. With double points awarded now for bookings in 2017, the public will bank more points. It won't matter what your upgrade order is.
Perhaps the Pilot that works very hard in the office might occasionally get F or J with an F11 based on greater years of service than the 24 year old from Jetstar IT, but even then it would be rare that there is even a free seat.
You can buy a confirmed economy ticket for $1000 on sale to the USA on Qantas and earn double points. Sign up to a new credit card and you can earn 100,000 points. Better to do that and use/earn points to get an upgrade. Puts you ahead of the 20 year old from Jetstar IT or HR anyway.
Unless you get a confirmed seat agreed to in an EA which will never happen, your better off focusing on increasing take home pay, rest days with family, better hotels etc etc.
Totally unrealistic to expect it of AIPA. They never promised it, however it was advertised or wrongly perceived to deliver more than was realistic.
Ive heard so many people wrongly complain that AIPA had promised something for voting yes. What idiots.
Doing an extra PER/LHR trip per roster without night credits and getting zero overtime for doing a 19 hour plus duty is a massive sacrifice without getting anything major for the trade off. Hourly rate aside it's less take home pay than 767 or A330 under the previous award flying what the 787 will do. That's Ultra Long Haul night flying. Rotating seniority isa fantastic outcome. For the PER base sadly it won't help as you could fly PER to LHR or PER to LHR.
The irony is the pay reduction was more $$$$ than what a full fare first class ticket cost to Europe, that would of earned points, earned status credits and been confirmed. Or two confirmed business tickets.
Would of been better to get a SH bonus scheme for trading off night credits and overtime than a staff travel review. With the record Qantas profits over the last financial year the bonus would have paid for the ticket.
For the next EA it would be far wiser to hold onto terms and conditions rather than trading big items for a hope you might get a better upgrade once a year you may travel.
The system has changed to benefit Frequent flyers permantely.
Any staff are the last priority now.Deal with it. Look at the upgrade requests and they often number 40+ For business and First. With double points awarded now for bookings in 2017, the public will bank more points. It won't matter what your upgrade order is.
Perhaps the Pilot that works very hard in the office might occasionally get F or J with an F11 based on greater years of service than the 24 year old from Jetstar IT, but even then it would be rare that there is even a free seat.
You can buy a confirmed economy ticket for $1000 on sale to the USA on Qantas and earn double points. Sign up to a new credit card and you can earn 100,000 points. Better to do that and use/earn points to get an upgrade. Puts you ahead of the 20 year old from Jetstar IT or HR anyway.
Unless you get a confirmed seat agreed to in an EA which will never happen, your better off focusing on increasing take home pay, rest days with family, better hotels etc etc.
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Hourly rate aside it's less take home pay than 767 or A330 under the previous award flying what the 787 will do. That's Ultra Long Haul night flying. Rotating seniority isa fantastic outcome. For the PER base sadly it won't help as you could fly PER to LHR or PER to LHR.
The take home pay on the 787 is significantly more that the 767 and slightly more than the A330.
Additionally, your pay doesn't drop $3K/fourtnight because you happen to be on leave. Get called out on a sim support or do a standby and you get significantly more, at the higher hourly rate, than you would on the 767 or 330.
Still in a defined benefit for super. If so it is definitely the fleet to be on. Your FAS is significantly inflated thanks to the higher hourly rate.
Don't agree? Then ask all of the A330 pilots that have bid for the 787. I assume they're all deluded and you're correct.
If your going to make statements such as you have, then at least be across the facts.
Hourly rate aside it's less take home pay than 767 or A330 under the previous award flying what the 787 will do.
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IsDon: I think the point he's trying to make is that under the previous 767 award doing the hours and sectors that the 787 is going to do, the take home pay would be greater. Mind you, the divisor would also be at least 25% higher to accommodate the extra hours the 787 award can squeeze into 56 days.
This argument has been done to death many times during the roadshows and has been shown, time and again, that it is an irrelevant argument.
The 767 could not do the length of sector planned for the 787. So it doesn't matter what arrangements were in place for the 767 as the 787 is doing entirely different flying.
What is important is takehome pay and the days at work needed to achieve it. On balanced argument the 787 is ahead of the 767 by a mile and the 330 by a small amount.
What I will grant you is that if the 330 were doing the same ultra long haul legs that the 787 is initially doing then yes, you would be getting paid more courtesy of the overtime. Fact is the 330 couldn't do this flying even if it wanted to as it doesn't have the legs. A similar moot argument as the 767.
If, however, you take a longer term think about where we'll be in five years or so, you would realise that it makes sense for the company to start replacing the 330 with the 787. It makes no sense operating two fleet types when the 787 can do all of the 330 flying, as well as the ultra long haul that will make up the initial routes, and do it more efficiently. The 787 has a lower operating cost per hour than the 330 with other gains in the economy of scale of operating one fleet instead of two, crewing, engineering, spares inventory etc. The companies own data showed a 25% efficiency gain over the A330. I don't believe that for a second, but 5% certainly. I reckon if it was even 1% more efficient then the 330 will be the next dying fleet. This is where anyone flying the 787 will be streets ahead. Once it starts operating on routes into Asia, and even domestically eventually, on routes that don't attract overtime on the 330 now, those flying it will be significantly better off.
Last edited by IsDon; 21st Jan 2017 at 11:23.
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I see what you trying to do IsDon.
Yes the 787 ultra long haul pilot will earn more than an A330/767 pilot flying DOMESTIC.
But if the 787 was doing 17 hour plus ULTRA LONG HAUL flights at A330/767 hourly rates and getting overtime then he or she is NOT.
PER/LHR and MEL/LAX is not domestic or Asia flying. Can the A330/767 fly for 18 hours? Hate to break it to you but it's different flying.
Without night credits working 30% more on long haul routes too. Glad the super is more to reflect the harder work. Excellent.
Interesting that none of the routes in the explanatory EA document were accurate. Where is all the Asia flying?
It's done and dusted now so nothing changes.
My point was that a review of staff travel changes were perceived to offer more than reality. Bit like your comparison of long haul 787 take home salary and A330/767 pay for flying domestically. If I'm wrong put the numbers up for a FO doing PER/LHRs and prove it.
The topic of this thread is 787 routes. I look forward to seeing more of the Asia flying that was advertised in the EA finally announced.
Yes the 787 ultra long haul pilot will earn more than an A330/767 pilot flying DOMESTIC.
But if the 787 was doing 17 hour plus ULTRA LONG HAUL flights at A330/767 hourly rates and getting overtime then he or she is NOT.
PER/LHR and MEL/LAX is not domestic or Asia flying. Can the A330/767 fly for 18 hours? Hate to break it to you but it's different flying.
Without night credits working 30% more on long haul routes too. Glad the super is more to reflect the harder work. Excellent.
Interesting that none of the routes in the explanatory EA document were accurate. Where is all the Asia flying?
It's done and dusted now so nothing changes.
My point was that a review of staff travel changes were perceived to offer more than reality. Bit like your comparison of long haul 787 take home salary and A330/767 pay for flying domestically. If I'm wrong put the numbers up for a FO doing PER/LHRs and prove it.
The topic of this thread is 787 routes. I look forward to seeing more of the Asia flying that was advertised in the EA finally announced.